August 06, 2018 01:04PM | Registered: 11 years ago Posts: 35,973
Status: HOF Inductee
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Quote
dzrams
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RockRam
We've been down this road before.
On the one hand you state that his market value is sky high, and could reasonably be beyond best Defensive player, because he is a generational talent and has no peer.
Then you turn around and lump him in with generic "starters". Every team has at least 25 starters. Does every team have 25 Aaron Donalds? ONE AD?
Decide which it is ZN. Is his leverage the same as merely a good starter? Or is he the best D player in the league and an exception to every rule as regards salary for a certain position?
The fact is that since the new CBA, there have been NO generational talent/Superstars traded during their prime, when they are still under contract, because THEY demanded it and got it. FAs? Sure. Guys past their prime and fading? Sure. 27 year old generational superstuds? No. And there's a reason for that. It's because they have no leverage. "Holding out" isn't much leverage when that cost to the team is loss of service of the player, but the cost to the player is earning a big fat ZERO. Might be more true at the QB position; but not at DT.
But you can't just stick AD in just any bushel basket of starters, or even Superstars, and for all eras, and then make a comparison.
Donald's is a very specific situation. And the Rams is a very specific situation. Rams hold a Royal Flush. Donald holds a pair of 2's.
How many teams can have a Donald hold out and then substitute for his absence with Suh?
Rams aren't the least bit concerned. They have a championship D with or without Donald; acknowledging that they indeed are better with AD than without. But this is almost like arguing the old college "who has not just an A, but the highest A". It's less about practicality and more about nuance.
We have been down this road before and the first time down you didn't establish your position with any evidence.
In that first discussion, you mentioned holding out and franchise tags as examples of a players leverage. But when I countered that holding out and franchise tags are all tools that existed in previous CBAs - thus making previous CBAs not much different when it comes to a players leverage - I got no response back on why the different CBAs so dramatically changed things that we can't use lessons learned from previous years.
There is one thing you mention here that is true: there have been no generational talent/Superstars traded during their prime under the 2011 CBA. But when you extract the meaning from that, you err in overlooking the reason why not.
There have been no players that fit your very narrow criteria that have demanded trades. The reason isn't because they have no leverage; it's because we have a whopping sample size of zero.
The Rams have a great D with or without Donald
this year. But this contract extension discussion is about the long term and anticipates a relationship far beyond this year.
And in a long term context, loss of service of a Donald type superstar is huge leverage. Are you really willing to say, in that regard, that a superstar has less leverage than an average starter?
Whose services will the Rams miss most? Matt Longacre or Aaron Donald? I bet Longacre holding out would put no pressure on the Rams but AD holding out would.
Two things that you might be overlooking here in this particular post, dz.
Rams do have the option of extending Suh for a few years if AD can’t be extended, for whatever reason. And Suh could be extended for less than AD money, I’m sure. So, yeah, that is tremendous Ram leverage. Their SB aspirations remain either with or without AD. That is beyond huge.
The other thing is that we must remember that AD is under contract and will be for 3 years, at least. Meaning that the Rams will have final say on any trade destinations AND on compensation from acquiring teams. Also meaning that UFA type monies are not gonna be on the table for AD.
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| RamBill | 1261 | August 06, 2018 05:11AM |
| Ramadune | 401 | August 06, 2018 05:29AM |
| max | 341 | August 06, 2018 05:35AM |
| RockRam | 353 | August 06, 2018 05:48AM |
| zn | 328 | August 06, 2018 05:51AM |
| PSJRam | 277 | August 06, 2018 06:14AM |
| AlbaNY_Ram | 250 | August 06, 2018 06:16AM |
| RockRam | 233 | August 06, 2018 10:39AM |
| AlbaNY_Ram | 205 | August 06, 2018 12:24PM |
| zn | 223 | August 06, 2018 12:34PM |
| Rams43 | 209 | August 06, 2018 12:42PM |
| BC Ramsfan | 207 | August 06, 2018 12:46PM |
| chico n da rams | 325 | August 06, 2018 01:46PM |
| Rams43 | 189 | August 06, 2018 02:01PM |
| Rampage2K- | 204 | August 06, 2018 02:08PM |
| zn | 194 | August 06, 2018 05:37PM |
| dzrams | 184 | August 06, 2018 05:54PM |
| jemach | 187 | August 06, 2018 05:59PM |
| zn | 252 | August 06, 2018 06:11PM |
| dzrams | 175 | August 06, 2018 06:19PM |
| AlbaNY_Ram | 184 | August 07, 2018 12:13AM |
| zn | 262 | August 06, 2018 06:28AM |
| Rams43 | 388 | August 06, 2018 06:34AM |
| PSJRam | 230 | August 06, 2018 08:16AM |
| RAMbler | 183 | August 06, 2018 08:34AM |
| Hollywood Ram | 203 | August 06, 2018 08:42AM |
| SunTzu_vs_Camus | 175 | August 07, 2018 08:35AM |
| zn | 180 | August 07, 2018 08:54AM |
| SunTzu_vs_Camus | 184 | August 07, 2018 09:28AM |
| Rampage2K- | 191 | August 07, 2018 10:22AM |
| SunTzu_vs_Camus | 171 | August 08, 2018 04:45AM |
| zn | 190 | August 07, 2018 11:06AM |
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| Rampage2K- | 187 | August 07, 2018 01:06PM |
| SunTzu_vs_Camus | 175 | August 08, 2018 04:39AM |
| Rams43 | 173 | August 08, 2018 06:40AM |
| RockRam | 224 | August 06, 2018 10:36AM |
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| zn | 190 | August 06, 2018 06:59PM |
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| zn | 228 | August 06, 2018 07:44AM |
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| PSJRam | 223 | August 06, 2018 08:18AM |
| Rams43 | 211 | August 06, 2018 08:22AM |
| dzrams | 328 | August 06, 2018 10:35AM |
| 73Ram | 214 | August 06, 2018 10:54AM |
| dzrams | 199 | August 06, 2018 11:07AM |
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| zn | 198 | August 06, 2018 11:56AM |
| dzrams | 176 | August 06, 2018 11:58AM |
| Rams43 | 186 | August 06, 2018 12:03PM |
| Rampage2K- | 227 | August 06, 2018 12:11PM |
| dzrams | 194 | August 06, 2018 12:12PM |
| Rams43 | 177 | August 06, 2018 12:33PM |
| dzrams | 192 | August 06, 2018 12:41PM |
| zn | 186 | August 06, 2018 12:44PM |
| dzrams | 189 | August 06, 2018 01:00PM |
| Rams43 | 182 | August 06, 2018 12:46PM |
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| NewMexicoRam | 337 | August 06, 2018 06:17PM |
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| max | 237 | August 06, 2018 06:32AM |
| zn | 260 | August 06, 2018 06:42AM |
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| zn | 353 | August 06, 2018 10:55AM |
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| zn | 180 | August 06, 2018 11:43AM |
| Rams43 | 192 | August 06, 2018 12:23PM |
| Ramsdude | 207 | August 06, 2018 12:14PM |
| dzrams | 180 | August 06, 2018 11:41AM |
| max | 177 | August 06, 2018 11:57AM |
| zn | 183 | August 06, 2018 12:05PM |
| max | 171 | August 06, 2018 01:06PM |
| dzrams | 175 | August 06, 2018 12:45PM |
| max | 178 | August 06, 2018 12:51PM |
| zn | 185 | August 06, 2018 01:01PM |
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| Rams43 | 173 | August 06, 2018 02:03PM |
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