July 08, 2017 03:58PM
Quote
zn
This is admittedly an old topic but it's the slow time so what the heck.

You can have a highly talented, productive WR who is elite or near elite and you look at him and say, that guy is or could be a #1. What about a guy who is not draft-day obvious elite but has enough skill to play in the NFL. Can he be a #1? To me yes, because I define that in terms of production, not in terms of the scouting report alone. As I say sometimes, elite WRs are usually #1s but not every #1 is elite.

I set the bar at 70 catches minimum plus 1000 yards minimum. According to the "#1 is talent level" approach, someone like Doug Baldwin in Seattle was always a bit more more marginal. His skill set may not be elite compared to the short list of top receivers, but apparently he had a number of things going for him. A guy like that, who can be more average in terms of talent, can have the mindset, dedication, work ethic, instincts, sense of the game, and inner steadiness to became an actual #1 as I define it. The offense recognizes this and builds some things around what he is good at, and puts him in a position to come through. So with that opportunity he provides consistent, regular, reliable production, and the numbers add up. Baldwin finally did that in his 5th year (78 catches, 1069 yards). Maybe it took some experience, some more focus or working on his game, some growing confidence or whatever. So then what happens is, however people rate his talent level or overall skill set, still, the team sees he can do it, they give him the opportunity by building on what he can do well, and he seizes it and comes through.I am pretty sure if Seattle had Julio Jones their offense would look different. But they saw what Baldwin COULD do---the things he was good at--and programmed that into their attack, and he did come through. You play to his strengths, and to the things he CAN do, which you know he will do consistently well, and just set him up to make catches, every now and then throwing in a type of play you know defenses don't expect from him (like the long pass Bradford threw to Amendola in the 1st 2012 SF game, the one they tied...a pass if I remember correctly that got called back.)

So if all I had in the receiving corps was Troy Brown, I would go--okay, what can he do for us, how do we make this work, how do we build what he IS capable of doing consistently well into the offensive attack. And sure enough, after years of flying under the radar, he has a season like 2001 where he catches 101 for 1199. #1 territory, as I am defining it. Just regular consistent production. It;s true that a lot of other guys with less than elite talent, just like Brown, could not be trusted to come through like that. He could. AND YET, at the same time, if I had Brown and could trade for Isaac Bruce, I would do it in an instant. You always want more elite talent. Doesn't mean though that you can't get #1 level production out of guys who may not get rated that high on draft day.

With this approach, by the way, a player can make the standard one year and not another. I just say he was a #1 in the year he did it. My definition allows for guys who drift in and out of the limelight that way.

Anyway.

Can Woods be that? A number #1 by THIS definition? In theory, yes. I am not promising or predicting it but I do think it's possible.

Here;'s a hint of that.

Woods played 13 games in 2016 and had decently modest numbers: 51 receptions on 76 targets (67.1%) and a YPR of 8.07. Granted that was for a predominantly running offense that was 32nd in passing attempts, plus they had traded up for Watkins who is clearly the more dynamic guy in terms of overall talent and he got most of the targets.

But how did Woods play without Watkins?

Last year Watkins was out for games 3-9. (Their bye week was week 10.) Woods played games 1-13. So that's 7 games where Woods played and Watkins didn't.

In the 6 games where both Woods and Watkins played, Woods averaged 3.8 targets per game. But in the games without Watkins, Woods averaged 8 targets per game. With Watkins playing too, Woods averaged 25 yards a game. Without Watkins, he averaged 66 yards a game.

All that suggests to me that he can make the 70/1000 standard with the Rams, since he will be the veteran receiver and he has that kind of mindset. Plus he wants it.

It would be nice, anyway. cool smiley

..
...

I would accept those production parameters for elite WR status, zn, but I would also include touchdowns with 9 being the minimum.
SubjectAuthorViewsPosted

  Can Woods be a #1? Depends on what you mean by that (long)

zn1222July 05, 2017 05:17PM

  Re: Can Woods be a #1? Depends on what you mean by that (long)

AlbaNY_Ram466July 05, 2017 10:40PM

  I don't see it that way

RFIP576July 06, 2017 03:06AM

  Well, maybe you should look again!

AlbaNY_Ram572July 06, 2017 03:29AM

  Well, mark me in the "no one" column re: Britt

ArizonaRamFan494July 06, 2017 06:28AM

  Re: Well, mark me in the "no one" column re: Britt

laram397July 06, 2017 06:51AM

  Re: Well, mark me in the "no one" column re: Britt

zn376July 06, 2017 07:36AM

  One thiing is for danged sure...

Rams43370July 06, 2017 07:52AM

  Re: It was a no-brainier...

laram367July 06, 2017 08:20AM

  Okay, all that is definitely fair .nm

ArizonaRamFan353July 06, 2017 08:55AM

  Re: It was a no-brainier...

21Dog354July 06, 2017 11:14AM

  i dont know about cancer

PHDram347July 06, 2017 12:21PM

  hands...determination...

wv ram341July 06, 2017 01:08PM

  Re: hands...determination...

zn343July 06, 2017 01:12PM

  They were gone before McVay was hired...

PaulButcher59500July 06, 2017 11:39AM

  Re: IF the HC wanted them they would still be here...NM

laram348July 06, 2017 12:20PM

  Don`t be so sure about that....(NM)

PaulButcher59330July 06, 2017 12:25PM

  Re: That's very interesting...

laram366July 06, 2017 01:01PM

  Clearly you still underestimate Demoff...

PaulButcher59437July 06, 2017 01:09PM

  Re:I wouldn't use that word...

laram351July 06, 2017 01:21PM

  Not by job title of course ;)

PaulButcher59371July 06, 2017 01:25PM

  Gotta disagree here PB

Old Goat341July 06, 2017 02:18PM

  That "new culture" is a collaborative effort IMO...

PaulButcher59399July 06, 2017 02:22PM

  Agree

Old Goat630July 06, 2017 02:27PM

  ANS (not long) = Depends on Goff/Mcvay. Nm

guinnessram272July 09, 2017 11:36AM

  I have to give you credit when you "adopt" a player you stick with them forever

LesBaker394July 09, 2017 12:14PM

  Re: I have to give you credit when you "adopt" a player you stick with them forever

Rams43334July 09, 2017 12:31PM

  Re: Can Woods be a #1? Depends on what you mean by that (long)

LMU93371July 06, 2017 03:34AM

  Re: Can Woods be a #1? Depends on what you mean by that (long)

RFIP429July 06, 2017 03:51AM

  Re: Can Woods be a #1? Depends on what you mean by that (long)

Steve416July 06, 2017 06:15AM

  I kinda like the way ZN posed this...

Rams43430July 06, 2017 06:49AM

  my oversimplified view of Woods potential

LMU93377July 06, 2017 07:06AM

  No...

PaulButcher59417July 06, 2017 01:04PM

  Re: No...

zn467July 06, 2017 01:10PM

  Re: No...

PaulButcher59340July 06, 2017 01:20PM

  Re: He put up 600 yards with YOU at qb....

laram467July 06, 2017 01:25PM

  He`s never come close to 1K yet in 4 full seasons...

PaulButcher59367July 06, 2017 01:38PM

  Re: Right because we know qb'ing doesn't matter..*eye roll*...NM.

laram699July 06, 2017 01:47PM

  So will he or will he not be a 1,000 yard receiver with the Rams in `17?

PaulButcher59351July 06, 2017 01:53PM

  Re: So will he or will he not be a 1,000 yard receiver with the Rams in `17?

laram491July 07, 2017 03:54AM

  I can see him as our new Amendola...nm

RFIP318July 07, 2017 04:49AM

  Re: No...

zn383July 07, 2017 07:10PM

  Re: No...

TonyHunter87336July 10, 2017 09:20AM

  Re: Be prepared to stand up and take your medicine...NM

laram491July 10, 2017 01:55PM

  And you as well

TonyHunter87312July 10, 2017 05:01PM

  Doesn't that assume

reggae352July 06, 2017 01:18PM

  Re: Doesn't that assume

zn314July 07, 2017 07:20PM

  Woods has not performed well but

Rams_81370July 07, 2017 02:46AM

  Re: Woods has not performed well but

RFIP347July 07, 2017 03:17AM

  Re: Woods has not performed well but

zn328July 08, 2017 08:09AM

  The gap between Woods and Watkins is signficant

Rams_81327July 09, 2017 06:16AM

  Is the QB situation here any better?

TonyHunter87328July 07, 2017 04:40AM

  good post, zn

SunTzu_vs_Camus360July 07, 2017 06:44AM

  Hahahaha. Nm

TonyHunter87287July 10, 2017 09:22AM

  Goff is a bigger question mark than Woods is, for sure...

Rams43360July 07, 2017 07:33AM

  Re: Can Woods be a #1? Depends on what you mean by that (long)

Classicalwit324July 08, 2017 03:58PM

  Re: Can Woods be a #1? Depends on what you mean by that (long)

zn308July 08, 2017 04:15PM

  Re: Can Woods be a #1? Depends on what you mean by that (long)

Classicalwit525July 09, 2017 12:39PM

  Re: Can Woods be a #1? Depends on what you mean by that (long)

zn331July 09, 2017 03:56PM

  Why didn't we just keep Britt?

rambleon312July 10, 2017 08:51AM

  Re: Why didn't we just keep Britt?

zn332July 10, 2017 09:00AM

  Britt is the better receiver...

TonyHunter87421July 10, 2017 09:33AM

  Re: Britt is the better receiver...

Rams43312July 10, 2017 01:23PM

  Re: Britt is the better receiver...

zn326July 10, 2017 08:14PM

  70/1000 makes a #1? Not a chance

Flipper336678July 11, 2017 10:12AM