Quote
Coy Bacon
Zn,
I don't think I've mischaracterised your argument. I'm arguing that Goff needs to improve. You've consistently highlighted the OLine weakness as a reason / excuse for his poor performance. I think you've had a knee-jerk reaction to my mild criticism of Goff, assumed that I'm a Goff hater, and you've defended him by highlighting the OLine weakness. Your argument here parallels the same tenor of argument you made on behalf of Jeff Fisher.
The 2 stats that you quoted in your first post support my argument completely:
1) Key Stat from QB Annual: Goff ranked ... 14th in PFF grade under pressure.
2) According to SportRadar, Goff had a QBR of 54.7 when pressured. That ranked him 13th among all quarterbacks who generally were considered starters
this season.
You're own stats make my argument for me. You've explicitly stated that Goff is in the middle of the pack. I wholeheartedly agree! I'm asking for improvement. If you've actually read and watched the Football Outsiders post about Goff you'd of seen several of the mistakes he's made. I thought I was stating the obvious.
It's common knowledge that a bad OLine hurts QB play. That's also stating the obvious. But QBs are not automatons, they're human, they improve, regress, make mistakes, etc. Even with a perfect OLine the best QBs are going to make a mistakes. That's also stating the obvious.
I am not putting words in your mouth but the tenor of your argument is that with a great/solid OLine Goff would be the most elite QB in the league. That parallels what one harsh critic of Goff said, "Goff is the best practice QB in football." (That criticism is also wrong, Goff is much better than that).
So please hear the actual point being made: Goff needs to improve. Simple. I'd like Goff to cut down the INTs and fumbles. Wouldn't you?
Somehow you don't think he needs to improve? Yes? No? Simple question but one you're probably hesitant to answer.
I don't think you can improve under those conditions--so IMO it's the wrong question. You need to improve the protection and change the playcalling so it's not the qb that "improves" on his own it's the offense. And sometimes it's not possible to do that, like in 2007 when there was nothing anyone could do to get an extreme mash unit OL to function. So no I do not buy they idea that if your OL is out of sync and badly underperforming that there are a lot of good qbs who rise above that.
I keep asking for example of qbs who played well under those conditions and so far we have Brady in 2015 (when his OL suffered a long series of injuries) and Wilson in 2017 (same thing). And although both Brady and Wilson are unusual in how quickly they process things, in both cases it caught up with them though.
If you want a qb to improve you give him solid conditions, like with a relatively healthy OL. Otherwise it's like asking if a man with a broken leg can improve his 40 time. Sure, but not until the leg is healed.
This is our impasse--no I do not buy the idea that if your OL collapses that good qbs can "rise above that" (that's not a direct quotation from you, it's just a convention).As it happens last year the OL did stabilize toward the end, which is kind of unusual since you shouldn't expect that from a unit that is starting 3 completely inexperienced injury replacements (including 2 rookies). It wasn't high caliber but it got to be pretty solid. As many have noted the playcalling shifted too, a concession by McVay that they couldn't just keep banging away running the exact same offense behind an altered OL.
And when the OL settled down some and was better than it was to start the year (when both OTs were struggling) you got better qb play too.
Compare the first 5 games of 2019 with the last 5:
first 5: 4 fumbles (3 lost), 63% completions, 7 TDs & 3.1% TD percentage, 7 INTs & 3.1% INT percentage, avg. qb rating 85.94 last 5: 0 fumbles (0 lost), 66.2% completions, 11 TDs & 5.09% TD percentage, 4 INTs &1.85% INT percentage, avg. qb rating 98.6:....
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2020 12:31AM by zn.
