none of that is new discussion though

Quote
PaulButcher59
PLEASE STOP!!!!

Well...no.

Though if you want, for all the good it does, keep saying "please stop." Or, consider living with differences of opinion on this.

Truth is? I've heard all that---your argument, and more. Those on my side have answered it all before. There are a lot of assumptions and corner cutting that go into hyperbolic claims as categorical as many people do with Fisher. I'm sure you feel the same way. It just seems to me that there is plenty of room to have different opinions on those years. Mine is basically that no matter what else anyone says, give them a starting qb and a relatively healthy veteran OL the majority of the time, and they do better. Not better than McVay because McVay is a find and is better than most coaches, let alone most Rams coaches. But, better than they did. That's just not an outlandish claim, like it or not.

But rather than re-play it all again, let's look at one example. The 2013 OL. PFF ranked the 2013 Rams OL 13th in the league. I never take PFF rankings in a literal, strict way, but that more or less means it was pretty good.

And in fact with that OL, even with Stacy at RB, they could have done fairly well that year, except the qb for the majority of the time was Clemens.

So 13th ranked OL---and only one player on that OL, Saffold, was on the team before 2012. So that means the line consisted of 4 additions. So they did do things to upgrade the team. That OL played well, and was relatively healthy most of the season until the last 4 games when they lost a number of starters. Why didn't they win more? I don't think anyone does much better with Clemens as their starter. Why didn't that OL continue into 2014? Injuries, mostly.

That's just one example.

So except for the fact that this discussion HAS gone on many times at length, we could have this discussion many times at length, again. Pretty much everyone is set in their ways, though, and it would be kind of futile I think. So the next step is just to accept the fact that others see this differently, in spite of all the speeches all of us have saved up. Just live with it. No issue leads to 100% consensus, and without dismissing the other side, just say it's history, it's done, not everyone agrees, that's fine. And so now and then when it comes up someone is going to see it differently. Rather than (futilely) demanding that they "stop" just shrug and accept that there are different views. Believe me I do. I don't respond to every single "coaching was the only issue before McVay" post. I let most of them go.

Fair enough?

....