Re: sstrams (or anyone else), drum machines?
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Ok, you're in luck, Aries.. well, a little bit in luck.. in some ways, a little bit SOL.. lol
I've owned two drum machines in my life.. the first was a Roland TR4, I think, which I traded in for an Alesis HR-16 in the 80's.. I still own the Alesis HR-16 and have programmed a TON of stuff on it.. One of the models you list is the Alesis SR-18, which is a newer model, but I'm assuming similar to the HR-16..
When it comes to drum machines, this is what I find to be important:
* The samples (or sounds) of the drums. Does the machine have LOTS of options for each drum, cymbal, etc..
* How man "Patterns" will it store? Patterns are basically one measure of music, or 4 beats in 4/4 timing
* How many "Songs" will it store? Songs are basically a collection of "Patterns" that you program to make complete songs
* What kind of outputs does it have? For mixing purposes, I like to keep the kick drum separate, the snare drum separate, then make a stereo mix of everything else - meaning you'd need 4 outputs to accomplish that. 1 for bass, 1 for snare, 2 for stereo mix of everything else..
So, how you make full songs on a drum machine goes like this - and do NOT try to "record" yourself tapping drum pads to try and create beats. you'll eventually get out of time or hit the wrong pad etc.. You want to "program" your beats and fills and stuff.. So, how do you do that? I'm gonna explain it in a way that hopefully will let you know what exactly you'll need in a drum machine to do what you wanna do..
Ok, remember we talked about "Patterns".. A Pattern is one measure of music, normally.. Note, on the HR-16 I can make a pattern much long than that, if I want to, up to maybe 8 measures long which sometimes comes in handy... Anyways, most of the time a pattern is broken up into 16 numbered parts, but you can change that up to 128 parts:
*So, the first pattern you'd make would probably just be a 4 count on hi-hat and you'd make that because you need a 4 count for the entire band to know when to start playing.. if you let the pattern loop, if would just play the hi hat 4 count over and over.
* Next pattern would be the first measure of your song.. For my example here we'll just say its a typical beat like Judas Priest "living after midnight".. Hopefully you know the song.. so, the first pattern would be kick, snare, kick, kick, snare with high hats. What I do is create a pattern with a cymbal on the first beat with the regular beat playing.. then I create another identical pattern without the cymbal, cuz if you wanted that main beat to play, you wouldn't want a cymbal at the start of every measure.. The drum machine will et you "duplicate" Patterns, then allow you to create simple changes to them so you don't hafta reprogram the entire similar Patter from scratch.
* You'd make patterns for fills.. So, if its a short fill, you'd maybe have half the pattern as the regular beat, then the second half of the pattern would be a snare fill, or something.. if its along fill, the entire Patter will be the fill.. it its SUPER long, you could either increase the length of the Pattern or do the fill in two Patterns..
*Make as many patterns as you need to finish the song - basically a new pattern for every time you do something different on drums.. this will also include an end Pattern - a Pattern or Patterns for ending the song..
Ok, so, time to make a "song".. what you do is create a new song, then all you do is tell it what number Pattern to play.. it would stat with Pattern #1 - your hi-hat intro, then Pattern #2, your main beat with a cymbal crash, then Pattern 3, your main beat WITHOUT the cymbal crash, then Pattern # 4, a fill, then Pattern 5 a bridge part, then a chorus Pattern etc.. every time you go back to the main beat, you don't create a new Pattern, you just play Pattern 3, or whatever Pattern you already have programmed..
So, The Alesis HR-16 uses the terminology "Patterns" and "Songs", I'm not sure if the other models are similar in terminology.. the important thing is how many Patterns will the drum machine store, and how many Songs will it store? Patterns are important because the more you have, the more parts you can program.. if it stores 200 Patterns (like the Alesis SR-18 you posted), it might only take you 40-50 to do a song, so you'd have 150 Patterns left to program other Songs.. I beleive the SR-18 you posted holds 100 Songs.. Keep in mind, Songs are just basically a list of Patterns playing in the order you tell them to play.. And you can reuse those Patterns in any number of songs you want.. You can also back up your data and wipe the slate clean to program new stuff then reload the old stored data if you need it..
Sounds are super important.. you don't want a jazz kick drum if you're doing metal - you want a 24" bad boy that shakes the foundation.. so, you pick which sound you want for each pad. I usually have a kick pad, snare pad (fat snare) hi-hats open, hi-hats closed, 3 or 4 different cymbal sounds, cowbell, ride cymbal, ride bell cymbal, two rack toms and one floor tom.. you can change the tuning of each drum and you can mix it's volume and pan, meaning you can pan each drum from left to right so it mimics a real drum set..
So, from the ones you posted.. the dirt cheap Korg Volcabeats model is OUT.. it only holds 8 Patterns in memory, meaning you can only program 8 different one measure patterns.. its more of a "loop" type drum machine for Rap or something.. you wouldn't even be able to do one decent song with 8 Patterns..
You know - I really am not familiar with the other models and would have to study up on them.. Right off the bat, tho, in being familiar with the Alesis, that'd be MY first choice because I'm familiar with how to program it.. But, one thing to keep in mind is: the hardest thing to program are GOOD fills.. they tend to sound robotic, if not done properly.. so, if any of these models has a ton of built in programmed fills, that would definitely be a HUGE consideration..
Holler if I can help with anything else..
Friendship is like peeing your pants.. Everybody can see it, but only you can feel the warmth..
I've owned two drum machines in my life.. the first was a Roland TR4, I think, which I traded in for an Alesis HR-16 in the 80's.. I still own the Alesis HR-16 and have programmed a TON of stuff on it.. One of the models you list is the Alesis SR-18, which is a newer model, but I'm assuming similar to the HR-16..
When it comes to drum machines, this is what I find to be important:
* The samples (or sounds) of the drums. Does the machine have LOTS of options for each drum, cymbal, etc..
* How man "Patterns" will it store? Patterns are basically one measure of music, or 4 beats in 4/4 timing
* How many "Songs" will it store? Songs are basically a collection of "Patterns" that you program to make complete songs
* What kind of outputs does it have? For mixing purposes, I like to keep the kick drum separate, the snare drum separate, then make a stereo mix of everything else - meaning you'd need 4 outputs to accomplish that. 1 for bass, 1 for snare, 2 for stereo mix of everything else..
So, how you make full songs on a drum machine goes like this - and do NOT try to "record" yourself tapping drum pads to try and create beats. you'll eventually get out of time or hit the wrong pad etc.. You want to "program" your beats and fills and stuff.. So, how do you do that? I'm gonna explain it in a way that hopefully will let you know what exactly you'll need in a drum machine to do what you wanna do..
Ok, remember we talked about "Patterns".. A Pattern is one measure of music, normally.. Note, on the HR-16 I can make a pattern much long than that, if I want to, up to maybe 8 measures long which sometimes comes in handy... Anyways, most of the time a pattern is broken up into 16 numbered parts, but you can change that up to 128 parts:
*So, the first pattern you'd make would probably just be a 4 count on hi-hat and you'd make that because you need a 4 count for the entire band to know when to start playing.. if you let the pattern loop, if would just play the hi hat 4 count over and over.
* Next pattern would be the first measure of your song.. For my example here we'll just say its a typical beat like Judas Priest "living after midnight".. Hopefully you know the song.. so, the first pattern would be kick, snare, kick, kick, snare with high hats. What I do is create a pattern with a cymbal on the first beat with the regular beat playing.. then I create another identical pattern without the cymbal, cuz if you wanted that main beat to play, you wouldn't want a cymbal at the start of every measure.. The drum machine will et you "duplicate" Patterns, then allow you to create simple changes to them so you don't hafta reprogram the entire similar Patter from scratch.
* You'd make patterns for fills.. So, if its a short fill, you'd maybe have half the pattern as the regular beat, then the second half of the pattern would be a snare fill, or something.. if its along fill, the entire Patter will be the fill.. it its SUPER long, you could either increase the length of the Pattern or do the fill in two Patterns..
*Make as many patterns as you need to finish the song - basically a new pattern for every time you do something different on drums.. this will also include an end Pattern - a Pattern or Patterns for ending the song..
Ok, so, time to make a "song".. what you do is create a new song, then all you do is tell it what number Pattern to play.. it would stat with Pattern #1 - your hi-hat intro, then Pattern #2, your main beat with a cymbal crash, then Pattern 3, your main beat WITHOUT the cymbal crash, then Pattern # 4, a fill, then Pattern 5 a bridge part, then a chorus Pattern etc.. every time you go back to the main beat, you don't create a new Pattern, you just play Pattern 3, or whatever Pattern you already have programmed..
So, The Alesis HR-16 uses the terminology "Patterns" and "Songs", I'm not sure if the other models are similar in terminology.. the important thing is how many Patterns will the drum machine store, and how many Songs will it store? Patterns are important because the more you have, the more parts you can program.. if it stores 200 Patterns (like the Alesis SR-18 you posted), it might only take you 40-50 to do a song, so you'd have 150 Patterns left to program other Songs.. I beleive the SR-18 you posted holds 100 Songs.. Keep in mind, Songs are just basically a list of Patterns playing in the order you tell them to play.. And you can reuse those Patterns in any number of songs you want.. You can also back up your data and wipe the slate clean to program new stuff then reload the old stored data if you need it..
Sounds are super important.. you don't want a jazz kick drum if you're doing metal - you want a 24" bad boy that shakes the foundation.. so, you pick which sound you want for each pad. I usually have a kick pad, snare pad (fat snare) hi-hats open, hi-hats closed, 3 or 4 different cymbal sounds, cowbell, ride cymbal, ride bell cymbal, two rack toms and one floor tom.. you can change the tuning of each drum and you can mix it's volume and pan, meaning you can pan each drum from left to right so it mimics a real drum set..
So, from the ones you posted.. the dirt cheap Korg Volcabeats model is OUT.. it only holds 8 Patterns in memory, meaning you can only program 8 different one measure patterns.. its more of a "loop" type drum machine for Rap or something.. you wouldn't even be able to do one decent song with 8 Patterns..
You know - I really am not familiar with the other models and would have to study up on them.. Right off the bat, tho, in being familiar with the Alesis, that'd be MY first choice because I'm familiar with how to program it.. But, one thing to keep in mind is: the hardest thing to program are GOOD fills.. they tend to sound robotic, if not done properly.. so, if any of these models has a ton of built in programmed fills, that would definitely be a HUGE consideration..
Holler if I can help with anything else..
Quote
Aries
Do you know anything about drum machines? Here's why I ask...
I don't really perform publicly, but once every year or two a buddy pulls together a few people to play 3-4 songs in a talent show. Usually classic rock stuff.
But we can't keep a drummer. Or if we can find one, he doesn't have a drum set (which is pretty much like not having a drummer). So I was wondering about a not expensive drum machine? Will these less expensive ones work to program a song and play through with fills, changes in the bridges, etc.? I mean I want one that works pretty much like JamesJM, except without all the mistakes and attitude. (LOL! Just kidding...)
I'm wondering about the $200 to $400 range... here are some that look interesting. Can't justify spending a lot, but I'd drop a few hundred, it would probably be fun to even just play with at home. Any advice?
Used Roland TR-08, less than $300 at Guitar Center, very tempting
[www.roland.com]
Korg Electribe2sd (new) Over $400, but you see them on eBay for around $300 which makes me suspicious but might be worth risking.
[www.amazon.com]
Korg Volcabeats (dirt cheap, doesn't sound good in the videos, all but ruled out. But DIRT CHEAP!)
[www.amazon.com]
Alesis SR-18
[www.amazon.com]
Friendship is like peeing your pants.. Everybody can see it, but only you can feel the warmth..
