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Re: False premise..

September 29, 2016 04:53PM
Quote
JamesJM
To say that on any given play there are choices (reads), complex choices - choices that we as fans don't fully understand is a given... to say that because that's so we as fans can't see what is happening is a false premise. If Keenum drops back I can SEE if he is going through progressions and it matters not one bit if I understand what the 'playbook' might offer OR what was going thru Keenum's head before and after the snap... it doesn't change anything.

"Stupidity" doesn't enter into this.. that's no more than hyperbole meant to demean another's opinion.

Another false premise... "The more likely scenario".. no it's not. The most likely scenario is what is actually happening. Keenum, in the Hawk's game at least, was NOT spotting open receivers... to say that because the playbook is complex and unknown to us, that it's sophisticated, that Goff doesn't understand it well yet, we can't 'know' that Keenum didn't spot an open receiver makes no sense.

Just one more thing... I see you, and others saying time and time again that Goff has 'never' changed protection.. how do you guys 'know' that?

Remember, I never said a thing about going through progressions. That's why I said that it sounds like he is going to his first choice based on pre-snap reads. That's a way to get the ball out quick. And that in turn is a smart safe way to play it until you have enough for more.

The idea about "stupidity" was this---we can't make assumptions that would simply paint the Rams coaches as basically having no clue, because the odds are against that being true. Someone can still prefer that they be replaced and for whatever reason think that others could do better...I am certainly not saying that, but as long as they have not emerged yet then there will be controversy...but I constantly see statements that effectively paint them as too stupid (to use, again, hyperbole to make a point) to get a driver's license. (If you take the word "stupidity" out of context, it reads one way; in context, attached to the deliberate and deliberately funny over-statement "too stupid to get a driver's license" it reads another, since we know no one literally claimed that. It's just a way of saying something.)

I will tone down the statement about never doing certain things at Cal, and yet we do know that whatever pre-snap stuff Goff did at Cal, and we really don't know how much it was, it was not the same level as the pros. .

"The more likely scenario," none of which had anything to do with post-snap progressions or not seeing receivers, had to do with this--since a lot of what is going on evaluating Goff has to do with stuff fans cannot see, then, the more likely scenario when it COMES TO THAT STUFF (like audibles and protections) is that the coaches know whether he is ready or not. Again, remember, I didn't say a thing about what happens after the ball is snapped---I was emphasizing things we could not possibly know, including how well the qb assesses the D pre-snap and responds with specific built-in adjustments etc.

Here's a good article on all this.

Quote

Difference between Carson Wentz, Jared Goff is the reps

David Carr

[www.fresnobee.com]

When the Eagles made the decision to trade Sam Bradford and put in a rookie quarterback, a lot of heads were spinning. I’m sure that in Philly they were ready to completely lose it.

But the kid, Carson Wentz, comes out and plays great and what we saw the other day was exactly what we saw in the preseason and exactly what we saw in college. The downfield accuracy is there. The arm strength is there. He’s able to move. The mental processing is there. He’s going to make some mistakes, but all young guys are going to make mistakes. It’s a process. But just like my brother Derek, the game wasn’t too much for him. I wasn’t surprised. I think a lot of us were expecting this.

I was in the minority back in the spring when they were going back and forth between Carson and Cal quarterback Jared Goff as far as who should be the first pick in the draft (Goff went to the Los Angeles Rams with the No. 1 overall pick and Wentz No. 2 to Philadelphia), but there were significant differences in where they were coming out of college and in their ability to make a quick impact in the NFL.

It’s all an estimated guess by everyone who is throwing their two cents in. I wasn’t really that concerned about the level of play that Wentz went up against at North Dakota State, an FCS school. I was more concerned about what Cal asked Goff to do in college as opposed to what North Dakota State asked Wentz to do in college from an offensive perspective.

Wentz was in a more pro-style offense. It wasn’t necessarily the intangibles. (He showed his leadership qualities when he got hurt and worked his tail off to get back on the field.) It was more what they asked him to do at the line of scrimmage. He checked at the line. He moved protections. He threw on time and in rhythm in pro-style concepts. The arm strength was there. Everything was there. He was the clear No. 1 guy for me, and I think for a lot of people.

Watching his first preseason game, it was the same stuff. He wasn’t flustered. It wasn’t too much for him because mentally he was prepared for it. What coach Doug Pederson was asking him to execute, he had seen all of that, and the most important thing when you’re getting into that situation is what you’ve done before.

NFL quarterbacks have to learn protections. They have to learn where the hot guys are and which adjustments to make. In Wentz’s first preseason game, he faced a defense rushing seven and the Eagles only had six blockers. One guy was free. Wentz pointed it out to his slot receiver. The slot receiver made the adjustment. Wentz threw a little 8-yard slant against Cover Zero, with no deep help, and it was a successful play. Right then, you knew. It was his first action in the NFL and right then you knew he understood protections, he understood how to get the ball out with timing – he knows how to beat a blitz.

He was not afraid of the moment. That one play spoke volumes because that’s the hardest thing to teach. If you have that when you come in, you’re already a leg up on everybody else.

Goff, on the other hand, was never asked to throw hots. He was never asked to see the coverage and understand who you’re throwing against. Cal’s system is based on progression – you throw it here or you throw it here. Cal isn’t worried about what coverage the defense is in. They’re not worried about protections. Cal’s plan: Our scheme is going to beat what you run.

That’s great in college. You can score a lot of points doing that. But it doesn’t help you as far as understanding where to go against two-man, where to go against Cover Three, what routes beat certain coverages. You end up going from your X to your Y to your Z and that’s it, and for the most part you can do it, but it doesn’t help you transition your game into the NFL.

I’m not saying that Goff wasted his whole college career in an offense that’s not going to help him transition, because he threw pro-style concepts. This is a small piece to the puzzle. But that piece is huge in the NFL because you’re going to get tested to see if you know your protections, to see if you know where to go against a blitz and if you haven’t had those reps, like Goff hadn’t, you’re behind. That’s why he’s not starting in Los Angeles and Wentz is starting in Philadelphia and it really is that 5 percent to 10 percent of those reps throughout his college career that helped him be ahead.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2016 05:35PM by zn.
SubjectAuthorViewsPosted

  Nelson Spruce = Adam Humphries

Speed_Kills1179September 27, 2016 05:47AM

  you are right on the money

L.A.Rams501September 27, 2016 06:10AM

  He reminds me a little of Boldin

merlin393September 27, 2016 06:45AM

  Re: the sample size is so small

Speed_Kills502September 27, 2016 07:24AM

  Very true on the sample size, however I'll add this...

merlin456September 27, 2016 08:15AM

  Re: He reminds me a little of Boldin

six2stack509September 27, 2016 09:01AM

  Re: i know Snead openly compared Cooper

Speed_Kills358September 27, 2016 03:58PM

  Re: He reminds me a little of Boldin

CraigMatson371September 27, 2016 12:33PM

  Re: Nelson Spruce = Adam Humphries

EastBayRam624September 27, 2016 08:13AM

  Re: Nelson Spruce = Adam Humphries

stlramz444September 27, 2016 09:02AM

  Spruce seems slower than Humphries...just with very sure hands. imo

SunTzu_vs_Camus384September 28, 2016 08:23AM

  Re: yes I think you're right

Speed_Kills384September 28, 2016 09:54AM

  If he gets first downs like Proehl used to...

PeoriaRa322September 29, 2016 03:09PM

  IS he actually going to play in a game

ferragamo79340September 28, 2016 08:32AM

  Re: good point.... it would be nice

Speed_Kills382September 28, 2016 09:55AM

  Even if Spruce played....

JamesJM385September 28, 2016 11:31AM

  Re: Even if Spruce played....

Rams43582September 28, 2016 11:34AM

  I can't imagine otherwise...

JamesJM587September 28, 2016 11:44AM

  you know what all that tells me?

zn309September 28, 2016 06:05PM

  As you know, I don't see it that way.....

JamesJM366September 28, 2016 06:58PM

  Re: As you know, I don't see it that way.....

zn396September 28, 2016 07:01PM

  thats the heart of it...

JamesJM392September 28, 2016 07:05PM

  Re: thats the heart of it...

zn560September 28, 2016 07:26PM

  Re: I would add

Speed_Kills371September 29, 2016 01:56AM

  Re: I would add

zn407September 29, 2016 04:39AM

  False premise..

JamesJM294September 29, 2016 06:05AM

  Re: False premise..

zn513September 29, 2016 04:53PM

  Re: I would add

Speed_Kills341September 29, 2016 06:37AM

  Re: I would add

zn364September 29, 2016 05:07PM