Quote
Ram_Ruler
Just because a team gives you a contract doesn't necessarily mean you're the face of the franchise or leader/best player on that team..
First, yes absolutely it IS debateable that he needs "perfect conditions." He just needs a solid OL. He did not have a solid OL. Having at least a solid OL is not "perfect conditions." And that's true of most good qbs---again, unless you can start listing me lots of examples of qbs who still play well when their OL is a multi-game mess (I never do get examples when I ask that).
Again we're just defining things differently. You seem to mean "elite qb" by "franchise qb" and I have always seen them as different. "Franchise" is the big set of which "elite" is the subset. And I don't care either way if he is the "face" of the franchise. He is their starting qb, and they intend to stick with him and build around him--that is by definition a "franchise qb." You don't give a 2nd contract to a qb you do not intend to keep that way.
Here are the QBs who signed TOP 2nd contracts since 2012. They all got the going market for the year they signed:
* Newton, Luck, Wilson, Cousins, Carr, Dalton, Garoppolo. Wentz.
Limiting it just to the first round (so there are not a few dozen names to sort out), here are the qbs drafted in the 1st round from 2012 on who DID NOT get market value 2nd contracts. They either signed low-end contracts (low for that year's market, which indicates there were doubts about them), or got injured, or just did not pan out:
* Tannenhill, Bortles, Griffen, Bridgewater, Ponder, Gabbert, Locker, Weedon, Manual, Manziel.
Winston and Mariota are still in limbo. There are certainly doubts about both.
Which group does Goff belong in?
The first group is franchise qbs or starting qbs the teams kept with 2nd contracts (which is the same thing) and the 2nd group is guys who got injured or did not pan out with their original team.
So you and I differ because you (to me) confuse "elite qb" with "franchise qb."
And leaving all this team elevation stuff aside (something only a rare handful of elite qbs actually do), it remains a fact---with only a small list of exceptions, you put a good qb behind a subpar line (without a running game on top of it) and that will tend to take the qb down with it.
