Quoterampage666 One stat I like for judging OL performance is the ESPN Pass Block Win Rate metric. They take the player tracking data from Next Gen Stats and measure if a blocker is beat before 2.5 seconds(Loss) or after(Win). I have ESPN+ so not sure if this is paywalled but here is a link: In 2019, the Rams are at 54% which ranks 24th. 1st is the Packers at 68%, 32nd is the Bengals aby zn - RamsFootballFans.com
Quoterampage666When not using Play Action and clean Goff is faster than the average QB at getting rid of the ball with a mid range depth of target. Yeah that corresponds to what we see.by zn - RamsFootballFans.com
Quotedzrams Proof or correlation, call it what you will. The second part of your prong can be proven b/c he played behind an OL that was ranked 13th by one metric. My premise is this: 1st half of 2018 it was ranked top 5 or Good (in a nod to rampage666 of more general categories). In the 2nd half it was ranked 13th or Average. In the 1st half Goff was top 10. In the 2nd half Goff wasby zn - RamsFootballFans.com
Quoterampage666 Apologies for not being clear. By situation I generically mean down, distance, plays, score differential that match the skill set of the line less. For example, more 2nd and 3rd and longs, more empty formations on 1st down or more short yardage formations on 3rd and 1. Maybe a better way of calling it is Game situation. I wouldnt call anyone on our line a good pure pass blockby zn - RamsFootballFans.com
No, it's "supported" by correlation. You can only "prove" he did play well behind a top 5 OL. (And btw I don't agree it was top 5 caliber anyway.) You cannot possibly prove he would NOT play well behind a 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th, or 15th ranked OL. Though it is pretty easy to demonstrate that most qbs play less well behind lines ranked in the 30s. ...by zn - RamsFootballFans.com
Quotedzrams Here's why it's not hyperbole. In 2017, Goff did very well with numbers as a top 8-12 QB and he had a top 5 OL. You only asserted that he HAD a top 5 OL (by some measures), not that he NEEDS one. It's the difference between this year's initially way out of sync then injured, low ranked OL and 2017's top 5 OL? That leaves a lot in between. You assume, to me wrongly, tby zn - RamsFootballFans.com
Quotedzrams But if I were to engage, let's assume it's true that only two QBs can do well with injury depleted OLs. Assume that's admitted. The fact that Goff is horrible under pressure, even apart from injury depleted OLs, and thus needs a top 5 OL to keep him clean is still true. I don't agree that he needs a "top 5 OL." I think that's hyperbole. But NOBODY needs a subpar and/or iby zn - RamsFootballFans.com
Of course it matters what my actual position is if you're going to disagree with it. B) I assume I am dealing with an honest misunderstanding about what my position is. There's no conflict here, just trying to sort out what's being argued. You said someone claimed only Brady and Wilson are good under pressure. Well no one else is bringing up those 2, and when I bring them up, it's not about tby zn - RamsFootballFans.com
QuoteJamesJM it's ALL not Goff's fault... or it is. I don't think either is true... but that leads to a problem: You can't fault Goff... and I think you can. This year isn't even CLOSE to being on Goff's shoulders... but that does NOT exempt him from criticism. Well, was going to post some more.. no reason to do that, however, minds have been made up... one way or the other. I don'tby zn - RamsFootballFans.com
Quotedzrams There is an oft repeated, but erroneous assertion that only Wilson and Brady perform well under pressure. s. Nope. That is not what anyone said. What I said was that they are the only 2 qbs I can think of who do well with subpar and/or injury decimated OLs. The mistake is to reduce that to being about "pressure." That's only a part of it, when the OL collapses.by zn - RamsFootballFans.com
Quotek3 ZN, very much appreciate the clarity and precision with which you speak. But even more so, your even-handedness if not your just fairness. I'm trying to think through decades of misinformation and misdirection and wish I was able to maintain your focus and clarity. Anyway, appreciate you on this board but thankful you are part of this planet! Take care of your people! Much Aloha! Wby zn - RamsFootballFans.com
Quote3030 I've heard it said that Brockers is having a great year - he just doesn't have the eye grabbing stats. Somehow we need to find a way to relieve AD of the double/triple teams he is getting. The man is good enough that we need to design a defense around him. Far as I can tell Wade is married to building around the OLB position. Neither Brockers or Fowler seem to be able to cash inby zn - RamsFootballFans.com
Quotedzrams When you say "in this case" and refer to scaling back the offense you are once again focused on the last handful of games. Again missing the full picture that I've brought up in this thread. The OL was not broken or scaled back last year and yet he was still nearly the worst in the league under pressure. At some point you just have to give up trying to explain thatby zn - RamsFootballFans.com
Quotekw13 You want to argue me, but really can't. Sure we can. Bough is playing his first game behind a solid OL, without massive pressure, and they do not have film on him. So the Lions can live with his less than 50% completion rate (7 of 15 at this point). That, and the Bears gifting the LIons with some massive break downs in the secondary. All that glitters is not gold.by zn - RamsFootballFans.com
QuoteRam49 If you're interested in Michael Lombardi's take, here is a link. I tend to agree with his commentary on ego. The Ram's stopped being hungry and driven.by zn - RamsFootballFans.com
Quote21Dog Quotezn Somehow some people want the team to display the kind of out of control emotion they themselves would condemn if anyone did it at their workplace. I don't disagree, but the NFL workplace is like no other. It's like most workplaces in that you rarely see the kinds of displays of anger we're talking about. There's 32 teams playing 16 games at least, and except for the odd tby zn - RamsFootballFans.com
QuoteSeattleRam Do you have a link where you can find stats like these? I'd love look up other QB's like Russell Wilson who's played behind below average O-lines his whole career. I always list Wilson and Brady as qbs who mostly (*mostly*) can still play effectively behind subpar or injury depleted OLs. It catches up even with them though. I can't think of any other examples.by zn - RamsFootballFans.com
QuoteSunTzu_vs_Camus Panic or Anger, as mentioned in the article, seem to be the ways to really show you care about what your doing?! huh???????????????? Intense emotions are not so good for physical focus during sports - imo...... and cause disruptions in the brain. It can create a thunderstorm of brain firings that need to be quieted in order to complete the task at hand. Training/repetitioby zn - RamsFootballFans.com
Quotedzrams QuoteSeattleRam Do you have a link where you can find stats like these? I'd love look up other QB's like Russell Wilson who's played behind below average O-lines his whole career. Pff.com However, you have to subscribe to their advanced metrics for this stuff. Russel Wilson QB Rating under pressure per year: 2019 - 105.3 2018 - 86.2 2017 - 69.0 2016 - 85.8 2015 - 89.8by zn - RamsFootballFans.com
Quotedzrams Quotezn Quotedzrams You and I are talking about two distinct things. You always assume people who express concern about Goff are ONLY basing that on his performance this year. Very bad assumption. I haven't even engaged in the frame of things dating back to 2007 because it's irrelevant for me since my concerns with Goff predate any injury issues. I've told you specifically sevby zn - RamsFootballFans.com
QuoteJamesJM I instinctively sympathize with you when you do... and I DO NOT WANT TO DO THAT.by zn - RamsFootballFans.com
Quotedzrams You and I are talking about two distinct things. You always assume people who express concern about Goff are ONLY basing that on his performance this year. Very bad assumption. I haven't even engaged in the frame of things dating back to 2007 because it's irrelevant for me since my concerns with Goff predate any injury issues. I've told you specifically several times, with empby zn - RamsFootballFans.com
QuoteJamesJM let the best man win. :laughingby zn - RamsFootballFans.com
QuoteJamesJM Who does it NOT apply too? Brady and Wilson. And even then they had games (especially in the post-season) where it caught up with them.by zn - RamsFootballFans.com
QuoteJamesJM they simply disagree. I disagree. I think they are in denial. That is how I see it.by zn - RamsFootballFans.com
This is a separate and distinct thing. It's not "qbs under pressure" under normal conditions. It's when OLs fall apart, and that is a distinct thing. Unless you have stat on "qb play when an OL has injuries to the point where they can no longer play effectively as a unit" then you're not chasing the right thing. Besides, if what you claim is true, WERE true, yoby zn - RamsFootballFans.com
Quotewaterfield By "vogue" I mean that its often said that with a poor O line only Wilson and Brady can overcome that. My point is that the O line is so important that if its really bad even those two will be affected. Nobody walks away from it. Okay. Yes both succumbed in the end. But kept it going for many games before that. And both of them, it's the same reason. Though they doby zn - RamsFootballFans.com
QuoteJamesJM it happens all the time. Players rise, and then perhaps fall, all the time. It's not 'career' stats ONLY that are relevant. No, I have consistently seen OLs that damaged for any length of time drag qbs down with them.by zn - RamsFootballFans.com
QuoteJamesJM the are the most notable... due to success. QB's CAN do things, often DO, that are extraordinary in their circumstances... but unless they WIN.. get marginalized. Unless you can name some yes they are the only current exceptions. That is, guys who have actually been in that situation (damaged to the point of being subpar as a unit OLs) and then played consistently well game afby zn - RamsFootballFans.com
Quotewaterfield I know its vogue to list them as exceptions. Yes they are the elite qbs today but I'm not sure how much better they would be with the Ram O line. 1st of all its speculation. We simply don't know. Sure they "might" do better than Goff but my guess is not THAT much better-not to the point that would prove the "exception" .Simply stated I am confident they would nby zn - RamsFootballFans.com