Re: You're a good man, zn...

Quote
JamesJM
And this topic actually goes back YEARS... and we've never really been able to get to the heart of it. I think partly your fault and partly mine.

I'm not sure I can say it any better than I have already tried... nor you able to show me exactly HOW you actually are addressing my point and I'm just missing it.

Never the less... stubborn person that I am... this:

There are 'main' factors for evaluating both success and failure. No one, certainly not me, denies that. But between you and I lies this difficulty we just can't seem to overcome... WITHIN that framework, (In this case the poor OL play... in other year's the problem was elsewhere), I firmly believe YOU CAN make good determinations of performance despite a 'bigger' existent problem. So when I say you CAN see some things Goff is doing poorly I am NOT ignoring, or failing to factor in, the poor OL play... but you always 'seem', (perhaps my mistake), to think that I am.

So unless you're saying the OL is the end all of everything regarding Goff.... I'm left not a little confused.

You're right I think that once the OL lets the qb down, worrying about the qb is massively missing the point. I do think that. But to be fair I stress that point in a context where many (not you) do not factor in the line play AT ALL, or sometimes just pay it lip service. They are qb-focused and I am context focused.

Like all good qbs (with the exceptions I named) all qbs play better with a solid or stable OL. Once the OL collapses I don't see the point in blaming the qb for the situation---it's a rare qb who CAN do anything with that situation. That's why for example the 7-9 Rams could beat the 11-5 Saints in 2013...Quinn had his best game and the Rams harassed Brees into mistakes.

So Goff played poorly with a discombulated OL. Solution? Fix the OL. Can't fix the OL? Expect more of the same.

In fact what surprises me in Goff's performance today is that they were in it to the point where at times you could see them taking the game back. They were only ever in it, when they were in it, because of the passing game. THAT is the thing to look at, IMO.

Does a qb make mistakes when his OL lets him down when they are playing from behind against a top pass rushing team? To me that's as simple as "duh, yeah, exactly."

In fact when the Rams D can put pressure on at a high level, I expect the opposing qb to make mistakes. That's the entire point of putting pressure on.

And I do not judge the qb by that. It happens to them all. With rare exceptions that I have named and even the exceptions don't always hold up (I have seen both Brady and Wilson play poorly behind iffy OLs, one facing the Rams in 2017 and one facing the Denver D in 2015...just to name examples.) So even the exceptions do not always hold up.













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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2019 07:20PM by zn.