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Re: Great players v Team Success

July 15, 2017 02:32PM
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laram
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dzrams
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laram
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But the reverse is also true. Great players do not make great coaches. (IMO, of course) Stephen Jackson was a great, internally motivated player who played on lousy teams for lousy coaches. As have other great players in league history, he toiled in vain on a poor team and he could do little to raise that team's ceiling.

Running backs rarely if ever RFL, that's not a good example.

See Dallas Cowboys and Barry Switzer or the Niners and George Seifert.

The list of examples is long.

I might also add Jordan, Pippen, Kobe and Shaq to the Phil Jackson mystique.

His latest stint has certainly tarnished the perception.

I was tracking with you until you mentioned Phil Jackson. He was a great coach; he's an awful front office executive.

What he did in NY was not coaching.

I do think I'm leaning your way on valuing great players above great coaches.

Well I along with many others in the sports field are now questioning that.

Did you know that Phil refused to accept a coaching job where HOF type players weren't in place?

He's coached 4 of the top 50 greatest players in the history of the NBA.

If you actually watched him coach he didn't do much in-game coaching.

He ran a Tex Winter offense and let the players figure it out.;

I'm aware of the difference between front office exe and coach, but there is a perception that there is a correlation.

I'm inclined to agree because I have always questioned his coaching ability.

Greg Popovich, now there IS a gr8 coach.

I've known all of that and it's true on PJ. Don't think it takes away from his coaching legacy though.

PJ was never about the x's and o's. He ran the triangle as a philosophy.

His genius was developing culture, leading and developing men, building trust and unity in the team, and managing egos. The triangle as a philosophy helped with this. He's not doing any of that as a front office exec.

Shaq and Kobe didn't win until he got there. It's likely that a coach with less cachet would not have successfully built a winning culture and made two alpha personalities buy into playing as a team with a clearly defined hierarchy.

I'm not gonna begrudge the man his respect as a coach. That's wrong IMO.

Agree on Pop. I've always thought he was the Best coach we've seen in the NBA maybe ever.
SubjectAuthorViewsPosted

  Is Head Coaching success as much luck as greatness)

RamUK678July 15, 2017 04:18AM

  Re: Is Head Coaching success as much luck as greatness)

Rams43328July 15, 2017 06:44AM

  Re: I disagree...

laram296July 15, 2017 06:59AM

  Re: I disagree...

Rams43285July 15, 2017 07:25AM

  Re: I didn't at all 43....

laram278July 15, 2017 07:46AM

  Re: I didn't at all 43....

Rams43265July 15, 2017 08:05AM

  I agree about Brady

RamUK284July 15, 2017 08:48AM

  No QB is willing a bad team to the playoffs

Flipper336270July 16, 2017 05:22AM

  And

RFIP251July 16, 2017 10:50AM

  Great players v Team Success

RFL298July 15, 2017 09:13AM

  Re: Great players v Team Success

laram423July 15, 2017 09:17AM

  The NBA is different.

RFL314July 15, 2017 09:56AM

  Re: Great players v Team Success

dzrams339July 15, 2017 02:07PM

  Re: Great players v Team Success

laram277July 15, 2017 02:14PM

  Re: Great players v Team Success

dzrams272July 15, 2017 02:32PM

  Re: IF that were true Shaq and Kobe would have stayed together...

laram275July 15, 2017 02:37PM

  Re: Disagree

dzrams335July 15, 2017 02:52PM

  Re: That's not correct...

laram264July 15, 2017 03:17PM

  Re: That's not correct...

dzrams256July 15, 2017 03:28PM

  Here's all the Head Coaches in the Hal of Fame

RamUK272July 15, 2017 09:34AM

  Uh, no.

RFL263July 15, 2017 08:47AM

  Look at this critically/scientifically

RamUK258July 15, 2017 08:51AM

  LOL! Zowie.

RFL269July 15, 2017 09:53AM

  LMAO - sorry Mark

RamUK234July 15, 2017 10:37AM

  Makes me wonder..........?

NewMexicoRam232July 15, 2017 09:49AM

  Re: Makes me wonder..........?

21Dog241July 15, 2017 09:50AM

  Interesting example

RFL245July 15, 2017 09:59AM

  I know that

NewMexicoRam362July 15, 2017 11:40AM

  Re: Another question may shed light...

dzrams232July 15, 2017 02:19PM

  There are those who would tell you...

RFIP347July 15, 2017 02:33PM

  Re: Are you telling me that?

dzrams257July 15, 2017 02:55PM

  Re: Are you telling me that?

RFIP245July 15, 2017 03:18PM

  Re: Are you telling me that?

dzrams279July 15, 2017 03:21PM

  Great question!

RamUK248July 16, 2017 04:46AM

  Belicheat got whipped 16-0 by Bills last year with his rookie QB

Rampage2K-262July 15, 2017 10:00AM

  The patriots started 3-0

Rams_81262July 16, 2017 01:19PM

  Re: The patriots started 3-0

Rampage2K-342July 16, 2017 03:50PM

  Cassell career win is 36-45

Rams_81234July 16, 2017 05:37PM

  Using the Rams as an example? YES!!

Ramgator245July 15, 2017 02:33PM

  luck

wv ram281July 16, 2017 04:37AM

  So pure will made the QBs great? No, coaching did

Flipper336266July 16, 2017 05:15AM

  Joe Gibbs must be the luckiest coach in NFL history also

Flipper336281July 16, 2017 05:34AM

  Re: Joe Gibbs must be the luckiest coach in NFL history also

21Dog463July 16, 2017 06:07AM

  Weird how that happens right...NM

Flipper336250July 16, 2017 06:14AM

  except

zn255July 16, 2017 10:40AM

  Having a backup QB ready and available...

Flipper336370July 16, 2017 11:18AM

  Re: Having a backup QB ready and available...

zn269July 16, 2017 11:24AM

  So your wild assumption makes it lucky?

Flipper336278July 16, 2017 03:34PM

  Re: So your wild assumption makes it lucky?

zn252July 16, 2017 04:14PM

  Re: Is Head Coaching success as much luck as greatness)

zn228July 16, 2017 06:07AM

  ask Phil Jackson

ferragamo79239July 16, 2017 11:23AM

  than carmelo and no one

Hazlet Hacksaw218July 16, 2017 01:26PM

  Re: Only one thing is luck wrt head coaches

merlin297July 16, 2017 04:57PM

  Belichick is great period!

jemach253July 17, 2017 04:17AM

  Re: Tuck rule and Seahawks didn't hurt...NM

laram365July 17, 2017 04:25AM

  Re: Belichick is great period!

FootballGenius203July 17, 2017 11:40AM

  I agree, but lately I'm a bit put off by the...

JamesJM393July 17, 2017 11:53AM

  Re: Is Head Coaching success as much luck as greatness)

zn280July 17, 2017 02:22PM