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Re: im not talking about having a bad game

February 10, 2019 01:15PM
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dzrams
Quote
zn
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Speed_Kills
Im talking about the games he had against good teams with top flight d coordinators which were beyond bad

And specificallly down the stretch this year where he looked like it was too big for him

All of that should be clear and IMO to reduce the conversation to every QB has bad games is disingenuous

Don't assume you know Ryan's history without actually exploring that history. Many of the games I list would qualify as beyond bad. He was capable of a 5 INT, no TD game in 2012. And don't dismiss this with quip...besides it's the other way around in terms of what is plausible. There is absolutely nothing special or unique about Goff's bad games if you look at the histories of young qbs. That is a fact that will stand up to scrutiny.

And as for the Rams, this year they beat 3 teams with top 10 defenses--Chargers, Dallas, Vikes.

People were questioning Goff the same way in 2017 after that Vikes game. This year they took it to the Vikes.

The games that concern you, a lot more went wrong than Goff. In those games the OL was beat. The pressure was higher than normal. There was no running game.. Savvy veteran D coordinators with tough (tough to great actually) squads had McVay's number.

But the lesson of the Vikes game in 2017 v. the Vikes game in 2018 tells me that all of those things can come together...with experience.

....

I hear what you're saying and I hear what Speed is saying regarding Goff's bad games.

I'd sum up what he's saying as this: there is a young QB having bad games due to being inconsistent and on the other hand there's a young QB consistently having bad/awful games against good defenses. I.e the inconsistent QB vs. the consistently bad/awful QB in certain conditions.

Those may be two separate things. I don't know for sure that they are but I'm thinking Speed sees them as two different things.

If they are two different things, giving stats showing a young QB's inconsistency doesn't address whether any of those QBs were consistently bad in certain situations - in this case great defenses.

I'm just pointing out an area that has some nuance and I'm not certain that everyone is on the same page about what we're talking about.

That said, I agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence. And the Vikings games of 2017 and 2018 are a big reason why. IMO, when Goff struggles it's due to lack of experience.

I;m not sure you responded to my whole post though. It;s not just that all good qbs have bad games when they are younger (which btw is true regardless).

I am saying other things too.

For one Goff is not consistently ineffective against great defenses. I named 3 the Rams beat. So whatever thread we're following, it isn't defined simply by "great defenses."

Then if you look at the 3 that gave them the most trouble---Chi, NE, Det---what other things do those games ha ve in common? And if you look, it;s not just subpar qb play. It;s also subpar OL play. It's also facing a top veteran defensive coordinator (Fangio, BB, Patricia). The minute you mention the DC, then alo ng with the OL, the playcalling and offensive strategy also become issues, ie. McVay.

So part of my point is that it does not all reduce to Goff. I think that ignoring that leads to some wrong assumptions.
SubjectAuthorViewsPosted

  Vikings Jared Goff v Bears/Pats Jared Goff

Speed_Kills435February 08, 2019 05:53PM

  completely disagree

zn157February 08, 2019 06:14PM

  Re:Goff is the SAME...the circumstances changed--Peyton Manning Comp

Steve82February 08, 2019 11:07PM

  Re: Good points both of you

Speed_Kills68February 09, 2019 04:49AM

  Re: Good points both of you

zn54February 09, 2019 06:17AM

  Facts are not relevant

waterfield37February 09, 2019 09:17AM

  Re: sort of like Gurley being too hurt to contribute

Speed_Kills30February 09, 2019 10:46AM

  I think that's true, he was too hurt to play 100%

zn29February 09, 2019 11:48AM

  we're approaching this differently W

zn26February 09, 2019 11:49AM

  Re: Good points both of you

RamsFanSinceLA13February 12, 2019 07:32AM

  not many QBs can do well when they are one dimensional

ferragamo7951February 08, 2019 06:25PM

  Re: Vikings Jared Goff v Bears/Pats Jared Goff Attachments

Ram4969February 08, 2019 06:31PM

  Michael Irvin on Inside the NFL

RamBill105February 08, 2019 07:07PM

  Fantastic breakdown, thanks

Ram4958February 08, 2019 07:27PM

  Re: Michael Irvin on Inside the NFL

zn83February 08, 2019 08:50PM

  Yep cant do that if Kupp is there

Hazlet Hacksaw38February 09, 2019 05:09AM

  If cooks makes those catches

PHDram43February 09, 2019 04:25AM

  Exactly

Ram4932February 09, 2019 08:07AM

  Re: Cooks

Speed_Kills42February 09, 2019 04:55AM

  I don’t think he’s top 10.......

Rampage2K-92February 08, 2019 07:53PM

  Re: top 5?

Speed_Kills48February 09, 2019 05:10AM

  Re: top 5?

Rams4349February 09, 2019 06:04AM

  Re: it’s ok 43 we can disagree on where he slots

Speed_Kills33February 09, 2019 08:18AM

  Re: it’s ok 43 we can disagree on where he slots

Rams4332February 09, 2019 08:23AM

  Re: Yup

Speed_Kills17February 09, 2019 08:34AM

  no way do I put Cam Newton

ferragamo7935February 09, 2019 07:10AM

  Re: ok but I bet you more people

Speed_Kills26February 09, 2019 08:32AM

  we will have a better idea

ferragamo7925February 09, 2019 02:54PM

  Re: yeah its killing me

Speed_Kills24February 09, 2019 05:00PM

  Re: we will have a better idea

AlbaNY_Ram19February 10, 2019 04:58AM

  Re: top 5? Why not? NFL.com has him 5th ranked also....

Rampage2K-49February 09, 2019 08:44AM

  Re: top 5? Why not? NFL.com has him 5th ranked also....

Rams4329February 09, 2019 09:03AM

  Re: top 5? Why not? NFL.com has him 5th ranked also....

Rampage2K-26February 09, 2019 09:18AM

  This might make you feel better.......Tom Brady's 7 worst games

Rampage2K-36February 09, 2019 09:21AM

  Re: top 5?

dzrams29February 09, 2019 09:34AM

  I rate him top 8- top 10 at worst

LMU9325February 09, 2019 01:15PM

  Re: I rate him top 8- top 10 at worst

Speed_Kills28February 09, 2019 05:02PM

  I'll be a little bit vague here...

LMU9335February 10, 2019 04:10AM

  Re: I'll be a little bit vague here...

zn28February 10, 2019 05:54AM

  Re: Good list.

Speed_Kills23February 10, 2019 06:50AM

  Re: Good list.

Rampage2K-29February 10, 2019 07:56AM

  Re: Good list.

dzrams20February 10, 2019 08:57AM

  Ryan did have an advantage early

zn23February 10, 2019 09:22AM

  Re: Idk

Speed_Kills18February 10, 2019 09:41AM

  Re: Idk

zn21February 10, 2019 10:12AM

  Re: im not talking about having a bad game

Speed_Kills22February 10, 2019 10:57AM

  Re: im not talking about having a bad game

dzrams20February 10, 2019 11:15AM

  Re: Thx dz. now we are talking

Speed_Kills18February 10, 2019 11:58AM

  Re: im not talking about having a bad game

zn18February 10, 2019 11:39AM

  Re: im not talking about having a bad game

dzrams19February 10, 2019 12:29PM

  Re: im not talking about having a bad game

zn18February 10, 2019 01:15PM

  Re: Idk

GroundPounder27February 10, 2019 04:06PM

  Re: Idk

zn21February 10, 2019 04:24PM

  Re: Idk

GroundPounder26February 10, 2019 05:07PM

  Re: Idk

zn28February 10, 2019 05:14PM

  Re: Idk

Rams4313February 11, 2019 07:30AM

  Goff has a winning record against your list of QBs

JoeMad15February 12, 2019 07:56AM

  top 10 QB with McVay Gurley Kupp

Rams_8136February 09, 2019 12:33PM

  Goff v Vikings highlights

Speed_Kills36February 10, 2019 07:27AM

  Step back for a while

max57February 10, 2019 11:59AM

  Re: Step back for a while

Rampage2K-37February 10, 2019 03:04PM

  Re: good stuff max

Speed_Kills29February 11, 2019 06:11AM

  Re: good stuff max

Rams4323February 11, 2019 07:36AM

  Speed....

zn23February 12, 2019 02:36PM

  I dunno Speed

max18February 12, 2019 01:06PM