I can say I have his Topps card 1968 shown in a lions jersey as he came via trade over that previous season........84, I guess that's a pretty good life time.....he sure played with a bevy of top class characters.....Had to be something to be involved with for sure....Not to mention his time with the lions..in those times they had a pretty good defense themselves.....Time marches on doesn't it, and as it does pieces fall away.....