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My problem with this discussion

September 20, 2018 09:54AM
And I don't just refer to this article. I refer to the broad NFL discussion, including on this board.

Discussions of Goff tend to include CW themes that seem to me to be contradictory:

  • On the one hand, I see all sorts of discussion--pundits and fans--of how good Goff is moving in the pocket to free himself from the pass rush enough to get balls off for completions.
  • On the other hand, I see all sorts of discussion--pundits and fans--of how Goff struggles under pressure.

Now, both of these assessments seem to be pretty widely held, sometimes by the same person, yet they seem contradictory to me. Isn't Goff sliding in the pocket to complete a pass a case of facing pressure?

I dunno. Maybe I'm misreading. Maybe people mean throwing on the run, which isn't really his strength, but is really only a limited subset of facing pressure. Maybe it's a matter of playing from behind, but we haven't faced that much this year, and when we did trail OAK early, I thought he played well.

But you know here's what I suspect. I suspect that most QBs, all those who haven't unambiguously proven themselves to be elite, are judged for every all-too-human error as if it's a sign of weakness. We do that with Garoppolo. Everyone who suspects Goff, Ram fan or otherwise, latches onto a couple of missed throws as indicators of weakness.

But you know all QBs miss throws. They are human. Elite QBs miss throws, but people don't say much because their rep has earned them a large margin of error. Missing a throw doesn't mean much unless …

Unless there is a definite pattern over time. And even then, beware of confused thinking.

Consider our Red Zone struggles. That really is a pattern of note. But is it evidence of Goff struggling? Well, the point has been made that his completion % there is actually exemplary. But the TD ratio isn't. That mystery eludes me, but man I do not think that a couple plays here and there tell us much.

This week, for example, I've seen somewhere critiques of Goff that blamed him for the batted down pass that prevented a TD to the wide open guy in the flat. OK, huh? A QB gets a ball knocked down and it's assumed to be his fault because he didn't loft it? You know, it's HARD to swat down a ball. Really. And one perfectly appropriate tactic is to fire the pass out quickly past the hands, a tactic that works most of the time. The DL makes a good play and this is supposed to show us something about Goff? Who also that day made numerous Red Zone and PAT throws that connected?

Look, I'm not writing this to defend Goff or excuse his mistakes. He did hang up the ball to Cooks and missed a wide open Woods. Those are misses. He played well but never really got hot in that game. He also made numerous incredible throws, including one on, I think, 3 & 11 standing on his goal line and getting the drive going. I think that was a pressure throw.

I guess I am asking us (most of the pundits never will be) to be reasonable in our rush to analysis and evaluation. A couple of individual plays now and then often don't mean anything except a human error. You know what Trevino used to say? "Two things don't last: dogs who chase cars and pros putting for pars." More than half the time, the very best putters miss putts outside, I think it is, 8 feet. It doesn't mean they are bad putters. It means they miss some.

I also ask us to consider both sides of coins. I don't think many around here have given Goff much grief for the pick he threw, under pressure and on the run. It is indisputably true that he threw that ball to a dangerous place and got burned.

But what's the other side of that coin? Throwing into tight windows, the skill most prized these days and the one Goff is getting a lot of credit for. He is increasingly amazing us with incredible throws that wave the cape right underneath the bull's nose. Well, if you do that, sometimes the bull is going to gore your side. Throw a ball into enough tight windows and NFL DBs will turn some around for you.

The greatest QBs in league history have all thrown picks. Some have thrown a lot of picks. It never meant they weren't great QBs. Goff has been famous for not throwing the ball away. As he becomes more and more aggressive, he will throw more picks. Let's be sure we remember both sides of the coin.
SubjectAuthorViewsPosted

  Frelund article - Goff stinks under pressure

max1027September 20, 2018 01:53AM

  BS

stlrams13314September 20, 2018 02:44AM

  She also isn’t impressed with McVay

max339September 20, 2018 02:47AM

  There is always a few, until there is not

den-the-coach307September 20, 2018 02:53AM

  Re: There is always a few, until there is not

Rams43209September 20, 2018 05:10AM

  Re: they don't have an identity?

Speed_Kills219September 20, 2018 07:20AM

  Re: Frelund article - Goff stinks under pressure

Rams43304September 20, 2018 05:12AM

  She really doesn't bother me as much as some other guys.

max292September 20, 2018 05:38AM

  What is the Sample Size?

RamBill214September 20, 2018 05:22AM

  He's taken a couple of sacks. Thrown the ball away, the int.

Saguaro252September 20, 2018 05:27AM

  Re: Goff playing conservative

hammer218September 20, 2018 05:32AM

  2-0, 13-6 since McVay

NewMexicoRam368September 20, 2018 09:41AM

  actually he is 13-5 since McVay

Rampage2K-182September 20, 2018 09:46AM

  Re: Goff playing conservative

bigjimram21212September 20, 2018 01:21PM

  Re: Goff playing conservative

73Ram159September 20, 2018 02:41PM

  Re: Goff playing conservative

bigjimram21289September 21, 2018 05:40AM

  Re: Goff playing conservative

RamsFootballFans.com238September 21, 2018 09:25AM

  Re: He's taken a couple of sacks. Thrown the ball away, the int.

oswald12247September 20, 2018 05:46AM

  Yep, that was eye-popping. Prolly not in her sample. nm.

Saguaro211September 20, 2018 05:51AM

  Re: Frelund article - Goff stinks under pressure

Ramsdude223September 20, 2018 05:40AM

  Re: Frelund article - Goff stinks under pressure

SUretHing222September 20, 2018 06:06AM

  Here's the thing

CeeZar293September 20, 2018 06:06AM

  footage of Cynthia Frelund first day at NFL Network

Rampage2K-265September 20, 2018 06:12AM

  According to PFF, Goff was 10th among all QBs under pressure.

max229September 20, 2018 06:41AM

  She gets you guys all worked up

waterfield339September 20, 2018 07:00AM

  Its good that you're not paying attention to what she said...

max212September 20, 2018 07:24AM

  Naw

waterfield164September 20, 2018 08:39AM

  I'm not sure that I see an issue with this?

Speed_Kills540September 20, 2018 07:16AM

  How about this?

max190September 20, 2018 07:27AM

  Re: Idk M

Speed_Kills194September 20, 2018 08:06AM

  Also

SUretHing173September 20, 2018 09:16AM

  That would then be some 7-9 BS!

Ram Fan Teacher159September 20, 2018 01:58PM

  QB Ratings under pressure:

JoeMad263September 20, 2018 09:24AM

  My problem with this discussion

RFL256September 20, 2018 09:54AM

  What's a CW?

max235September 20, 2018 10:18AM

  I was wondering that myself (nm)

waterfield193September 20, 2018 01:59PM

  CW = Conventional Wisdom (nm)

RFL420September 21, 2018 05:30AM

  Thx. That's better than Chicken Wings (nm)

max196September 21, 2018 05:57AM

  Or better than ClassicalWit (nm)

Rampage2K-168September 21, 2018 06:53AM

  Well, for what it's worth, where I stand..

JamesJM200September 20, 2018 10:24AM

  Re: Well, for what it's worth, where I stand..

bigjimram21156September 20, 2018 01:28PM

  Agreed about Goff ...

RFL188September 21, 2018 05:42AM

  THAT is one very incisive post. Well done. nm.

Saguaro183September 21, 2018 05:57AM

  You know, it happens everywhere ...

RFL158September 21, 2018 06:30AM

  My gut reaction is:

JamesJM272September 21, 2018 06:58AM

  Human nature, indeed!

RFL147September 21, 2018 07:07AM

  and yet

zn160September 21, 2018 07:10AM

  LOL... I don't see it that way...

JamesJM157September 21, 2018 07:20AM

  Re: LOL... I don't see it that way...

zn354September 21, 2018 08:37AM

  I hated that post. It could have been so much better.

Saguaro164September 21, 2018 07:52AM

  Re: and yet

bigjimram21149September 21, 2018 08:14AM

  You're not a curmudgeon...

JamesJM150September 21, 2018 07:18AM

  Here's what might be an example...

Saguaro163September 21, 2018 07:54AM

  Ever coach?

JamesJM155September 21, 2018 07:58AM

  Actually last year Goff's TD ratio in the rz WAS good

zn156September 21, 2018 05:59AM

  Goff stinks when trailing at start of 4th quarter

Rams_81215September 23, 2018 03:01PM

  But does he stink under pressure?

ArizonaRamFan214September 23, 2018 03:07PM

  I did not say he stinks under pressure

Rams_81227September 23, 2018 03:10PM