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moklerman
Does anyone know why the NFL is crediting the Rams with a sack on that play where Rivers took the snap, pitched it to a receiver who pitched it to Allen, who slowed, looked to pass, then pulled it down and tried to run? Why would it be a sack when the player wasn't a QB, didn't take the snap and on an option? Should have just been a run for loss IMO.
As I understand it, since he was a passer on that play, the fact that he pulls it down and runs is the same with a qb. The passer is sacked if tackled behind the LOS, whether he has pulled the ball down or not. Since Allen was a passer on that play, that's what counts.
That's a big assumption for the official scorer to make. Why would the assumption be that he's a passer when a) he's not a QB and b) he didn't pass it? He wasn't even tackled in the act of passing, he was tackled in the act of running.
Seems to me if it's going to boil down to the scorer assuming the intention of the player, when Allen was tackled he was clearly running and not passing. He had a RPO, was not a QB and didn't take the snap. To me, it would be the equivalent of charging a sack on a jet sweep that went for a loss.
He was a passer on that play. That was evident. It wasn't an assumption.
The play is here, at 5:24 in. Allen sets up, he's a passer.
You don't have to pass it to be the passer, you just need to set up to pass the ball.
And once he's a passer, it doesn't matter if he runs instead. At that point, it;s no different from when the qb is the passer. It's still a sack if the qb gets tackled behind the LOS if he pulls down and runs.
Think of it this way. When you sack a player, it's always the passer. A sack means tackling the passer behind the LOS. Vast vast majority of the time, the passer is a qb. This is one of those rare cases where the passer is not a qb. Doesn't matter, he's a passer. When the passer pulls the ball down to run it's still a sack.
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If Allen had been in the pistol and taken the snap, I'd agree. But this is a double reverse, run/pass option. I don't know that I've ever seen a non-QB on an option play been counted as a sack. I understand the logic that you're offering but I don't agree with it. This was a WR that had the option to throw if it was there and since it wasn't, he tucked and run so it's a running play at that point. I'm not even sure if the complete term is "QB sack" or just sack. Like I said, I don't recall ever seeing a player that didn't take the snap(direct or shotgun) that wasn't a QB called a sack.
I don't see how one can say that Allen was strictly a "passer" on that play. He's a WR running the ball with the option to throw. If a RB took a pitch and drifted wide, looking to pass and then kept it and was tackled behind the LOS I don't think that should be a sack either.
He sets up and scans the field. The announcers saw it and the Rams defenders played it that way. The instant he sets up he's a passer. He takes the option to pass. The fact that he doesn't throw it doesn't matter...he took the option, set up, and in doing so crossed the magic line and became a passer.
I personally think it's obvious from just watching the clip.
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I'm not arguing that he thought about passing it. But I don't think that's the point. He's not a QB and he's running an RPO. He's a position player who ultimately tried to run with the ball. Just because he pump fakes it along the way doesn't mean he's a QB who got sacked.
I don't even see how a position player that didn't take the snap of the ball can ever be sacked especially when not in the act of passing.
Well, this is my final shot on this. The rules don't say you have to be listed on the roster as a qb for it to be a sack. You just have to be a passer. In this case the instant he set up to pass, Allen became a passer. From that point on regardless of anything else, if he's tackled in the backfield, even if he tucks the ball and runs, it's a sack. A sack means tackling the passer in the backfield, even if he tucks the ball and runs. The rules were written decades before teams ran RPOs.
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