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Re: of course we aren't

January 12, 2021 08:40PM
And thats ok.

And I do agree with you that there are multiple reasons for his poor performances. Its also not lip service when I say there are other factors. (yeah, I read that, and yeah, I know who you were talking about, there are only about 3 posters with this stance)

1. Interior pass rush, wanna fluster a pure pocket passer like Goff, pressure him up the middle. That was the way to rattle Brady as well. The Rams have to fix the center position. I've been begging for a OC for, what?, 3 years now? Its almost criminal.

2. Lacking Gurley. He was an all world back catching and running and he was the defenses first priority. Its no wonder Goff "has regressed" since 2018. Gurley was a shell last year and gone this year. I think Akers can be very good, but Gurley was elite.

3. A deep threat that gets separation. Any of the Rams can get deep, but can they get deep with a step? Probably not. There is more to NFL football than pure, unadulterated speed, but it doesn't hurt at times.

4. The new offense. The Rams have done less 11 personnel and more 12 and even 13 stuff. Goff has always thrived in a more wide open up tempo offense.

So yeah. Its not all Goff. Or maybe it is and thats all lip service. But that leads me to my main point:

I've been saying for literal weeks now that I think he is processing things too slowly, making poor reads and taking too long at the LoS. Well apparently McVay also thinks Goff isn't seeing what he should be seeing out there. I'm not going to attempt to read into that, or make stuff up to "fit my narrative" or misconstrue what McVay was saying.

I have a theory that I have zero proof of. I think after McVay came out and criticized Goff and said those turnovers cannot happen, Goff got way too conservative with the ball, stopped throwing at what he thought were too tight of windows and just started to get gunshy. When that happens, you are done out there, things are happening way too fast. You cannot be indecisive. Goff looks cooked. At least this season. He needs to clean out the cobwebs.

Here's what I said and that appears to be a response to it: My view is basically that I don't think the one single common thread in the bad games is Goff playing poorly. I think there are other common threads in all those games.

I count Goff as having 4 bad games. Miami, SF twice, and the 2nd Seattle game. I don't count the Jets game because Goff got going in the 2nd half. There were defensive let downs so bad in that game (including blown coverages) that Orlovsky made a vid about it.

What happened in the 4 games?

Point 1. Agree mostly, with somewhat different emphasis. You put it on Blythe but I put it on the entire OL--they got directly attacked and beat up. In spite of the Miami game, actually, the Rams have been good overall against the blitz. But even though I put it on the OL not just Blythe, there were games where they came to play and won the LOS. They lost in the 2nd Seattle game but then came back in the wildcard game and dominated, Whitworth being a big part of that. In terms of replacing Blythe, they are kind of forced to do that anyway. Blythe is on a one year and they can't afford him. They might have a guy in house like Anchrum who can become a center, and they can certainly draft one.

Point 2. And agree mostly, but with some different emphasis. Gurley and then losing him was a big factor but then there were games where they could not run and yet came through. In the 1st Arizona and Tampa games for example they threw it 98 times combined. They could run against Seattle in the 3rd game, a lot of that having to do with both a more mature, healthier Akers and getting Whitworth back. The run game is always a factor with Goff but it is not universal or absolute--they have a good run game with Akers and they weren't always stymied when defenses took away the run.

Point 3. I just agree about the WRs and separation, no qualifier. Well except to say that while this is a factor and having that would be nice, it's not must-have, IMO.

Point 4. Your reasoning for #4 I turn around and do it this way--McVay adapts to his chalkboard, he doesn't adapt to his qb. Someone recently mentioned that the minute he got Mahomes Reid put in some spread plays from the college Air Raid. I can't imagine McVay ever doing that. He seems to get tone deaf about game situations and about in-game tactical stuff and about things like building around the strengths of his players (this is real but I don't want to overstate it). An example of this came last year with Higbee. The TE they were originally trying to get more targets was Everett. not Higbee. Everett then got hurt and so they handed that mantle to Higbee, and he dominated--he was a revelation. When asked if he was surprised by that, Gurley said no--none of that was a surprise, everyone already knew about Higbee just from practice. Gurley's snarky implication was that it just took McVay a long time to use him. It's also the case that Goff has always been a learn it by doing it kind of guy and McVay gave him a new offense without a real installation. In fact here's a guy who is supposed to be this qb guru and right now there's talk that he undermined Goff's confidence. That's on the coach. A great coach when it comes to handling players in situations like this can convey the criticism without undermining the player. Every player is different and you reach them different ways. If you don't know how to do that you're just a control freak who loses patience when people don't fit into your square holes. Is there some of that in McVay? Yeah I think, a bit...but again I don't want to overstate it.

Finally. The picture of Goff as having weeks of these dominant issues just simply does not strike me as true. Just looking at the regular season, he was bad against SF in game 2 and Seattle in game 2, but since the bye that's 3 games where played well and 2 games where he came back from a slow start or played decently enough to win (Jets and Patz). 5-2 and yet many people seem to be focused on the bad games. What I see instead is more than enough to work with to develop solid consistency and not this decent to good 71% of the time thing.

I don't worry about the turnovers with Goff, that's an easy fix. The real problem was them piling up in 2 games (Miami and SF) and they always had the same cause--when things were collapsing around him he tended to press and try to make plays instead of taking a sack, bailing on the play, going out of bounds, sliding, etc. He had to unlearn his tendency to press and take it all on him (something which he probably got from Cal where sometimes he actually was all they had). Reduce that stuff and you reduce the perception that he is always bad or that he regressed. And this gets us back to coaching. 3 years now and McVay goes up against defenses that take over games and he does not find ways to settle things down and turn the momentum around--in those moments is a long list of klutzy in-game futility.

This Goff can be developed back into the better Goff from 2018. A more consistent OL would help, a more consistent run game would help, and the coach clearing up some of his own blindspots would help too. But above all Goff has to continue acting like he learned his one big lesson--don't PRESS when things around you are not holding up. That's his biggest flaw IMO.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2021 08:46PM by zn.

  Just listened to McVay

stlrams131470January 10, 2021 05:35PM

  Re: Just listened to McVay

max235January 10, 2021 05:38PM

  I think the cold weather thing is a reach, the Thumb is unknown

BumRap137January 10, 2021 08:23PM

  Re: Just listened to McVay

waterfield187January 10, 2021 05:41PM

  Re: Just listened to McVay

max143January 10, 2021 05:43PM

  Where McVay will catch the fans wrath....

Ramgator139January 10, 2021 05:52PM

  Re: Just listened to McVay

waterfield129January 10, 2021 05:57PM

  you do?

Speed_Kills95January 10, 2021 06:03PM

  OK Here's the deal

waterfield75January 10, 2021 10:02PM

  Re: Just listened to McVay

max102January 10, 2021 06:04PM


Speed_Kills72January 10, 2021 06:10PM

  Re: agreed

max63January 10, 2021 06:21PM

  Re: no doubt nm

Speed_Kills35January 10, 2021 06:52PM

  Of course all the odds are against the Rams BUT

waterfield44January 10, 2021 09:49PM

  QB notwithstanding

RamUK58January 10, 2021 10:42PM

  Re: QB notwithstanding

73Ram44January 11, 2021 03:10AM

  not really

Speed_Kills97January 10, 2021 06:01PM

  Re: not really

max77January 10, 2021 06:05PM

  Re: not really

Speed_Kills75January 10, 2021 06:11PM

  Re: not really

napoli65January 10, 2021 06:22PM

  Re: not really

Rampage2K-55January 10, 2021 07:02PM

  Good luck with that. Wolf was not special Sat

BumRap59January 10, 2021 08:28PM

  Re: Good luck with that. Wolf was not special Sat Attachments

stlramz68January 10, 2021 09:20PM

  Re: Good luck with that. Wolf was not special Sat

Speed_Kills38January 11, 2021 05:26AM

  Re: Good luck with that. Wolf was not special Sat

zn56January 11, 2021 05:28AM

  probably alot more if he wasn't too busy turning it over

Deadpool52January 11, 2021 03:33PM

  we're not seeing the same way

zn45January 11, 2021 09:34PM

  of course we aren't

Deadpool39January 12, 2021 03:42PM

  Re: of course we aren't

Rams4324January 12, 2021 03:51PM

  On Blythe

PHDram25January 12, 2021 05:06PM

  I don't think we are

Deadpool26January 12, 2021 05:34PM

  Corey Linsley is a FA after this year

Speed_Kills25January 12, 2021 05:59PM

  Re: Corey Linsley is a FA after this year

PHDram18January 12, 2021 06:30PM

  Re: of course we aren't

zn31January 12, 2021 08:40PM

  McVay doesn't adapt to his QB?

Deadpool23January 13, 2021 02:33PM

  Re: Snead answered this part...

dzrams23January 13, 2021 03:05PM

  TY sir

Deadpool22January 13, 2021 03:09PM

  Re: TY sir

dzrams17January 13, 2021 03:43PM

  I'd go even further..

JamesJM14January 13, 2021 03:44PM

  Re: TY sir

zn15January 13, 2021 03:49PM

  Re: TY sir

dzrams15January 13, 2021 04:12PM

  Re: TY sir

zn9January 13, 2021 05:01PM

  Re: TY sir

moklerman7January 13, 2021 05:37PM

  Re: McVay doesn't adapt to his QB?

zn15January 13, 2021 03:31PM

  well to be fair, Cal had 20 plays

Deadpool16January 13, 2021 03:59PM

  Re: well to be fair, Cal had 20 plays

zn14January 13, 2021 05:06PM

  Re: not really

Rampage2K-43January 10, 2021 07:05PM

  but it's not "by Saturday"

zn112January 10, 2021 06:02PM

  Re: Just listened to McVay

stlramz60January 10, 2021 07:58PM

  Re: I personally saw nothing from Wolford Sat

BumRap93January 10, 2021 08:19PM

  Re: I personally saw nothing from Wolford Sat

MalibuRam106January 10, 2021 08:50PM

  Malibu nails it

Headslap7563January 10, 2021 10:20PM

  Re: Malibu nails it...AND...All Goff does is WIN.

oldschoolramfan27January 12, 2021 03:59PM

  Re: Malibu nails it...AND...All Goff does is WIN.

Rams4319January 12, 2021 04:17PM

  Re: I personally saw nothing from Wolford Sat

zn79January 10, 2021 10:21PM

  I'm willing to give Goff benefit of the doubt

LMU9355January 11, 2021 04:02AM

  A couple of things

Speed_Kills50January 11, 2021 05:21AM

  Well, thats all speculation on your part...

max52January 11, 2021 05:33AM

  its a chat board... thats what we do is speculate

Speed_Kills39January 11, 2021 05:49AM

  Re: its a chat board... thats what we do is speculate

max42January 11, 2021 07:13AM

  Re: its a chat board... thats what we do is speculate

Speed_Kills33January 11, 2021 09:05AM

  Re: its a chat board... thats what we do is speculate

max41January 11, 2021 09:26AM

  Re: its a chat board... thats what we do is speculate

Speed_Kills30January 11, 2021 09:35AM

  Re: its a chat board... thats what we do is speculate

max34January 11, 2021 09:38AM

  Re: I personally saw nothing from Wolford Sat

CarolinaRam36January 11, 2021 09:48AM

  Re: I personally saw nothing from Wolford Sat

moklerman10January 13, 2021 05:41PM

  Imma go with McVay Bum nm

Speed_Kills40January 10, 2021 08:57PM

  Re: I personally saw nothing from Wolford Sat

Leoram55January 10, 2021 11:45PM

  Aikmen was talking about Woldford

Speed_Kills64January 11, 2021 06:31AM

  I would rest Goff

merlin70January 10, 2021 08:42PM

  To me, the formula should remain the same: start Wolford

RockRam51January 11, 2021 02:45AM

  There are SO many facets to this Goff vs Wolf decision...

Rams4398January 11, 2021 07:45AM

  Despite all the obstacles, I am fired up for the opportunity

stlramz61January 11, 2021 08:19AM

  Re: Despite all the obstacles, I am fired up for the opportunity

Rams4349January 11, 2021 08:34AM

  Re: Despite all the obstacles, I am fired up for the opportunity

BerendsenRam28January 11, 2021 11:30PM

  +1 & well said (nm)

zn27January 11, 2021 08:25AM