RE: Kyren the fumbler

Re: Adams

Leoram — Wed, 08 Jul 2026 07:38:21 -0400

Quote
MalibuRam
You seem very passionate about your opinions/narratives.

"When a narrative born out of hubris outstrips the facts"

What do you mean?

The Rams explored an Adams trade with both the Packers and the Eagles. Its not a slight against Adams.

The only people who can answer why they made an attempt to trade Adams are Snead and McVay.

Good question. Nothing about the Adams discussion has been disrespectful. Nothing in this thread about Williams was disrespectful. SOME of the things put on Williams last year at this time was disrespectful and overblown beyond the numbers, hence this thread.

Throughout NFL history, with few exceptions, the heavier the usage of a back per season correlates with a higher fumble rate. Interestingly, this also happened with Kyren. This is why Corum's increased usage was necessary.

Re: Adams

MalibuRam — Tue, 07 Jul 2026 23:20:59 -0400

You seem very passionate about your opinions/narratives.

"When a narrative born out of hubris outstrips the facts"

What do you mean?

The Rams explored an Adams trade with both the Packers and the Eagles. Its not a slight against Adams.

The only people who can answer why they made an attempt to trade Adams are Snead and McVay.

Adams

Leoram — Tue, 07 Jul 2026 21:57:24 -0400

D Adams stats with the Rams are on par with his performance with the Jets.

Jets: 67 receptions 854 yards
Rams: 60 receptions 789 yards

His years of 100+ catches and 1,000+ yards are in the rearview mirror. However, the TD production was extremely valuable (though I would expect regression in that regard going forward).

A willingness to trade him, as they moved on from Kupp, is informative. McVay et al will maximize his skills within the offense as well as they can. I expect the offense will continue to evolve and Adams can be an important piece of that even with 50 receptions, 650 yards, and 8 TDs. At this point, when he gets paid is irrelevant because he is under contract. He is a savvy vet and leadership presence which transcends the numbers. Lamenting what he no longer can do is wasted energy.

I tend to appreciate what is because I recall how many decades were spent rooting for a team that was not really competitive. I get irked when the people who risk and perform are devalued by those who elevate themselves through criticism. When narratives born of hubris outstrip facts, I get particularly irritated. It's unnecessary. We can enjoy the ride together, win or lose. But those sacrificing their bodies and reputations should also earn our respect. Please, for the love of football... afford them that. It is all I ask.

Is Kyren Williams an "elite" RB?

Ramsdude — Tue, 07 Jul 2026 18:03:31 -0400

I love KW and think he is a very good RB that excels at the goal line and pass protection. He was the victim of some very untimely fumbles but he seems to have fixed that issue. He is a humble person and fits the McVay "type" of player. I think he was a steal in the 5th rd of the Draft.

He has been very consistent year after year having played in a system that fits his style very well. My only complaint, and it's not really even a complaint, is that he lacks that "extra gear" to take it to the house. Imo, if he had that "gear" there would be no doubt about him being elite.

He has had a pretty big workload since becoming a Ram and I am glad to see Corum is splitting carries now to keep him fresher. I think KW might have another 2 years of very good play in him.

AI...

Los Angeles Rams running back Kyren Williams ranks 26th among all active NFL players in career rushing attempts, with 838 carries since entering the league in 2022.

Here is the breakdown of his workload since his rookie season:

2022: 35 carries
2023: 228 carries
2024: 316 carries
2025: 259 carries

Despite being drafted in the fifth round, he quickly became a massive workhorse in head coach Sean McVay's system, playing over 80% of offensive snaps at various points and posting three consecutive 1,000+ yard rushing seasons.

Is Kyren Williams an "elite" RB? I asked AI. Fwiw, here is the answer...

AI Overview

Whether Kyren Williams is considered "elite" depends on who you ask, but he is widely viewed as a highly productive and consistent starting back. While he earned an NFL Top 100 nod and is a top fantasy asset, evaluators note he lacks a defining elite trait like top-end breakaway speed.

The debate regarding his status breaks down into a few key areas:Production: Williams has been exceptionally durable and productive. He is one of only two backs to rush for at least 1,100 yards and 10 touchdowns in each of the past three seasons, alongside Derrick Henry. Last year, he tallied 1,533 scrimmage yards and 13 touchdowns for the Los Angeles Rams.

Scouting & Traits: In an ESPN poll of NFL executives and coaches, Williams was given an "honorable mention" rather than a top-10 spot. Scouts praise his toughness, vision, and pass-protection skills, but some coordinators argue he lacks "high-end traits" and benefits heavily from strong offensive line play.

Community Consensus: Fan and fantasy football discussions reveal mixed opinions. Many rank him in the Top 5 to 10 due to his sheer volume and scoring ability, while others view him in the Top 12-15 range, considering him a solid, system-dependent player rather than a generational talent.

Re: Hey Merlin

Old Goat — Tue, 07 Jul 2026 17:24:27 -0400

Quote
Speed_Kills
I see the conversation with Leo has kinda gone off the rails With nothing to eat, we're feeding on each other.

But I did want to chime again and just say that Kyren’s production is elite in comparison to others. Falling behind but a couple of players. In fact his TD production is tops Period. And his TD production was top notch at a time when the Rams simply weren’t getting the TD production from Stafford. He is the only running back in franchise history to post three consecutive seasons with at least 1,100 rushing yards and 13 total scrimmage touchdowns, and I didn't know that until I looked it up.

I only mention that because while I did not like the fumbles and the timing of them I did cut him some slack because in many ways he carried the offense prior to last year and his production outweighed the negatives. Fumbles like interceptions are back breakers and coming when and where they have, Kyren has had to carry that. He worked hard to correct it, but I think the timing just worked against him perception-wise. Like you say, what he's done to me outweighs what he has not done.

I’m probably in the minority on that but my take has always been Barkley, Gibbs, Robinson, Henry and then in that next group (again in terms of production) Kyren is right there even if he doesn’t have the measurables of some others All backs taken in the first round that are bigger, stronger and have that "burst" everyone wants from him. I'll take his consistency and where we drafted him and be happy. .

Re: Hey Merlin

MalibuRam — Tue, 07 Jul 2026 14:55:45 -0400

I agree with your post. At this stage of his career is a one trick pony?

As a #2 WR it would be nice to have more diverse skills.

Re: Hey Merlin

AlbaNY_Ram — Tue, 07 Jul 2026 14:42:50 -0400

Quote

Adams does excel at press coverage leading to his high TD rate inside the 5.

No denying that Adams has his limitations and shortcomings which you covered quite well. And yes, the Rams would have been happy to trade him if they could. And yes, he is probably overpaid at this point.

But none of that pertains to the point I was making.

You made a claim earlier that Adams' success was due to the system and that McVay deserved most of the credit. My point is tha Adams has a rare ability to succeed where most WRs can't. Based on you comment above I guess you would agree?

Disagreement in these things are fine

merlin — Tue, 07 Jul 2026 14:25:09 -0400

It's to be expected. And it's something I welcome. Only thing that rubs me the wrong way is victim approach arguments. Trying to make it look like Williams was tarred and feathered here on the board or that posters wanted to run him off the team for example is a bit much. Personally I've always supported him and valued him. I just said at the time he's got to limit those fumbles, and I am willing to bet he was told the same thing by Rams coaches. In fact I am certain of that.

And I know that because he's not Dickerson. He's not Barkley. He is not even remotely in their range as a player. But I'm fine with that disagreement with you, certainly we all have our opinions on these things and to a large extent RB is an eyeball test. Cheers matey. :beercan

Re: Hey Merlin

MalibuRam — Tue, 07 Jul 2026 14:24:09 -0400

The Rams have lots of options on offense. The defense had to pick their poison.

Top five Rams in TD:
Adams 14
KW 13
Puka 11
Parkinson 8 (3rd for TE NFL)
Corum 6

Rams had the #1 scoring offense in the NFL.

The Rams did not try to extend Adams. They actually attempted to trade him. No takers I guess?

Adams has too many drops and gets alligator arms over the middle. His has a poor catch percentage too. Lack of effort blocking as well.

Adams does excel at press coverage leading to his high TD rate inside the 5.

Is he worth 20 million at this stage of his career? 10 million in dead cap if the Rams traded him. They tried.

Re: Hey Merlin

AlbaNY_Ram — Tue, 07 Jul 2026 13:32:40 -0400

In McVay's 9 years as head coach he's had 26 WRs play for him.

Kupp had 16 TDs in 2021, his triple crown season.

Adams had 14 last year,

No one else has had more than 10.

If the results are purely McVay why don't the Rams have a 14 TD receiver every year?

Granted, McVay's system is pretty WR-friendly. But if he could get 14 TDs out of any Joe Schmo in the league then he'd sign Joe Schmo for a mil or 2 rather than pay Adams $22M a year.

Re: Hey Merlin

MalibuRam — Tue, 07 Jul 2026 12:31:43 -0400

Williams and Adams are both successful because of the system.

Neither are top tier at their positions with the exception of TD's.

Mcvay deserves most of the credit.

Hey Merlin

Speed_Kills — Tue, 07 Jul 2026 10:52:52 -0400

I see the conversation with Leo has kinda gone off the rails

But I did want to chime again and just say that Kyren’s production is elite in comparison to others. Falling behind but a couple of players. In fact his TD production is tops Period. And his TD production was top notch at a time when the Rams simply weren’t getting the TD production from Stafford

I only mention that because while I did not like the fumbles and the timing of them I did cut him some slack because in many ways he carried the offense prior to last year and his production outweighed the negatives

I’m probably in the minority on that but my take has always been Barkley, Gibbs, Robinson, Henry and then in that next group (again in terms of production) Kyren is right there even if he doesn’t have the measurables of some others

Re: Stop with the rationalization

Leoram — Sun, 05 Jul 2026 22:23:21 -0400

Quote
merlin

Quote
Leoram

Quote
merlin

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Leoram

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merlin
Some players are in fact fumblers. Williams had a clear propensity to fumble two years ago but he fixed it.

If you want to sit back and act like you're a better fan because you can make excuses for players hey, knock yourself out. But don't preach that nonsense to me. I'm not buying it.

Career fumble percentages per carry:

Tony Dorsett 3%
Franco Harris 3%
Walter Payton 2.2%
Eric Dickerson 2.6%
OJ Simpson 2.5%
Marcus Allen 2.1%

Kyren Williams 1.1%

When do facts actually matter?

Kyren is not a chronic fumbler. Case closed! Some just cannot let go of their narratives.

Kyren is not in the class of any of those RBs. He is more of a RBBC type back, a lead back certainly in the stable, but he is not an elite back. What this means is you're not going to put up with a high fumble rate (like Dickerson had) with him. In fact if he were to continue his rate of somewhere around 1.5 going off memory in 2024, if that rate had continued into last season, if he had not shown improvement which I credited him for showing in my post, we would probably have seen Corum transition into more of a lead role in that backfield.

Guy like Kyren has to be secure with the ball. Period.

Now who's rationalizing? Ifs, nuts, and buts
1.1% It's okay to be wrong and apologize.

Nevermind, I'm not buying what you're preaching and making excuses for faulty narratives proven wrong. Period.

You posted a thread. I gave you my take on your post. You cited numbers. I gave you what I consider to be relevant data to those numbers.

Fact is that a non-elite RB could have only one fumble, with that fumble being in the big playoff game that sends his team home, and that may be enough to end up going with another RB. The rules are different for the elite backs. Kyren's a good back, I respect his game very much and love his approach as well as the way he fixed the issue. But he's not the back who is going to have coaches looking the other way when he puts it on the ground.

Not gonna keep going back and forth on this, either. You seem determined to act like anyone who holds fumbles against Kyren to be some sort of hater. This is not reality. He is one of the most beloved players on this roster.

I only posted facts and repeated your words back to you (not buying what you are preaching, making excuses, period). You were and are wrong. Regardless of how you want to say he isn't a generational talent...

1.1 is who he is. Not a fumbler. He could have 2 yards per carry and you could call him ineffective. What you cannot do is call him a chronic fumbler. Not at 1.1%

Apparently, the Rams agreed because they extended his contract WHILE emotional, knee jerk fans were calling for his head. The Rams were right. Kyren proved them right. He proved it to EVERYONE who isn't sooooo in love with their narratives they cannot say what this man deserves.

Say it with me... I was wrong. I am sorry. It's part of being human. We are all wrong from time to time. It's really okay.

Re: Stop with the rationalization

merlin — Sun, 05 Jul 2026 20:30:44 -0400

Quote
Leoram

Quote
merlin

Quote
Leoram

Quote
merlin
Some players are in fact fumblers. Williams had a clear propensity to fumble two years ago but he fixed it.

If you want to sit back and act like you're a better fan because you can make excuses for players hey, knock yourself out. But don't preach that nonsense to me. I'm not buying it.

Career fumble percentages per carry:

Tony Dorsett 3%
Franco Harris 3%
Walter Payton 2.2%
Eric Dickerson 2.6%
OJ Simpson 2.5%
Marcus Allen 2.1%

Kyren Williams 1.1%

When do facts actually matter?

Kyren is not a chronic fumbler. Case closed! Some just cannot let go of their narratives.

Kyren is not in the class of any of those RBs. He is more of a RBBC type back, a lead back certainly in the stable, but he is not an elite back. What this means is you're not going to put up with a high fumble rate (like Dickerson had) with him. In fact if he were to continue his rate of somewhere around 1.5 going off memory in 2024, if that rate had continued into last season, if he had not shown improvement which I credited him for showing in my post, we would probably have seen Corum transition into more of a lead role in that backfield.

Guy like Kyren has to be secure with the ball. Period.

Now who's rationalizing? Ifs, nuts, and buts
1.1% It's okay to be wrong and apologize.

Nevermind, I'm not buying what you're preaching and making excuses for faulty narratives proven wrong. Period.

You posted a thread. I gave you my take on your post. You cited numbers. I gave you what I consider to be relevant data to those numbers.

Fact is that a non-elite RB could have only one fumble, with that fumble being in the big playoff game that sends his team home, and that may be enough to end up going with another RB. The rules are different for the elite backs. Kyren's a good back, I respect his game very much and love his approach as well as the way he fixed the issue. But he's not the back who is going to have coaches looking the other way when he puts it on the ground.

Not gonna keep going back and forth on this, either. You seem determined to act like anyone who holds fumbles against Kyren to be some sort of hater. This is not reality. He is one of the most beloved players on this roster.

Re: Stop with the rationalization

Leoram — Sun, 05 Jul 2026 17:47:59 -0400

Quote
merlin

Quote
Leoram

Quote
merlin
Some players are in fact fumblers. Williams had a clear propensity to fumble two years ago but he fixed it.

If you want to sit back and act like you're a better fan because you can make excuses for players hey, knock yourself out. But don't preach that nonsense to me. I'm not buying it.

Career fumble percentages per carry:

Tony Dorsett 3%
Franco Harris 3%
Walter Payton 2.2%
Eric Dickerson 2.6%
OJ Simpson 2.5%
Marcus Allen 2.1%

Kyren Williams 1.1%

When do facts actually matter?

Kyren is not a chronic fumbler. Case closed! Some just cannot let go of their narratives.

Kyren is not in the class of any of those RBs. He is more of a RBBC type back, a lead back certainly in the stable, but he is not an elite back. What this means is you're not going to put up with a high fumble rate (like Dickerson had) with him. In fact if he were to continue his rate of somewhere around 1.5 going off memory in 2024, if that rate had continued into last season, if he had not shown improvement which I credited him for showing in my post, we would probably have seen Corum transition into more of a lead role in that backfield.

Guy like Kyren has to be secure with the ball. Period.

Now who's rationalizing? Ifs, nuts, and buts
1.1% It's okay to be wrong and apologize.

Nevermind, I'm not buying what you're preaching and making excuses for faulty narratives proven wrong. Period.

Re: RE: Kyren the fumbler

sfbayram — Sun, 05 Jul 2026 15:19:38 -0400

Kyren wouldn't have fumbled the ball if he didn't get punched in the head.
Watch the replay and he got rocked and ended up face planting.
I would say he got knocked out or for sure lost his ability to concentrate.
It should have been a 15 yard penalty, half the distance and fist down.

Re: Stop with the rationalization

merlin — Sun, 05 Jul 2026 15:18:54 -0400

Quote
Leoram

Quote
merlin
Some players are in fact fumblers. Williams had a clear propensity to fumble two years ago but he fixed it.

If you want to sit back and act like you're a better fan because you can make excuses for players hey, knock yourself out. But don't preach that nonsense to me. I'm not buying it.

Career fumble percentages per carry:

Tony Dorsett 3%
Franco Harris 3%
Walter Payton 2.2%
Eric Dickerson 2.6%
OJ Simpson 2.5%
Marcus Allen 2.1%

Kyren Williams 1.1%

When do facts actually matter?

Kyren is not a chronic fumbler. Case closed! Some just cannot let go of their narratives.

Kyren is not in the class of any of those RBs. He is more of a RBBC type back, a lead back certainly in the stable, but he is not an elite back. What this means is you're not going to put up with a high fumble rate (like Dickerson had) with him. In fact if he were to continue his rate of somewhere around 1.5 going off memory in 2024, if that rate had continued into last season, if he had not shown improvement which I credited him for showing in my post, we would probably have seen Corum transition into more of a lead role in that backfield.

Guy like Kyren has to be secure with the ball. Period.

Re: Stop with the rationalization

Leoram — Sat, 04 Jul 2026 22:59:08 -0400

Quote
merlin
Some players are in fact fumblers. Williams had a clear propensity to fumble two years ago but he fixed it.

If you want to sit back and act like you're a better fan because you can make excuses for players hey, knock yourself out. But don't preach that nonsense to me. I'm not buying it.

Career fumble percentages per carry:

Tony Dorsett 3%
Franco Harris 3%
Walter Payton 2.2%
Eric Dickerson 2.6%
OJ Simpson 2.5%
Marcus Allen 2.1%

Kyren Williams 1.1%

When do facts actually matter?

Kyren is not a chronic fumbler. Case closed! Some just cannot let go of their narratives.

I dont think Leo is doing that

Speed_Kills — Sat, 04 Jul 2026 20:35:07 -0400

but I do think he feels like the criticism of Williams was very heavy handed. I agree with him on that

He fumbled… he also lead the league in TDs

People blamed the Philly playoff loss on Kyren getting the ball punched out by Jalen Carter in the cold in a snowstorm. But gave Stafford a pass on the very next series which allowed them to extend their lead. This was aa game a in which he carried the ball 18 times and rushed for 106 yards

IDK it just feels like people go overboard on Kyren IMO

No he cant fumble… and we don’t like it… but jeeze in 23, & 24 especially the Rams offense would have dead without his toughness

good points

21Dog — Sat, 04 Jul 2026 20:34:19 -0400

Definitely some strange circumstances.

Just think if the desperation heave by Caleb Williams had led to a Bear win in the playoffs.

Last year was derailed by freak plays

stlramz — Sat, 04 Jul 2026 19:35:54 -0400

starting with the blocked field goals in Philadelphia, Kyren getting a ball punched out by a defender taking a wild swing at the 1 yard line, to the two point conversion V Seattle, to a broadcast referee calling in a penalty, to a weird two point conversion that should've never been to Xavier Smith fumbling.

That's how good we were last year. Change any of those plays and we might have another Super Bowl under our belt. That said, what are the odds of that happening again

Stop with the rationalization

merlin — Sat, 04 Jul 2026 14:07:59 -0400

Some players are in fact fumblers. Williams had a clear propensity to fumble two years ago but he fixed it.

If you want to sit back and act like you're a better fan because you can make excuses for players hey, knock yourself out. But don't preach that nonsense to me. I'm not buying it.

Re: About X Smith

AlbaNY_Ram — Sat, 04 Jul 2026 09:58:32 -0400

Here are the top 10 punt returners from 2021 based on average yards per return.

[attachment 15448 Screenshot2026-07-04094416.png]

The second guy on the list played for the Rams. Methinks they had a viable returner available.

He only played 6 games in 2021 but played all 17 in 2022. I can see why he had trouble making the game day roster at first - that was the year of the Atwell-as-punt-returner experiment and the team had WRs Kupp, Jefferson, Woods, OBJ, Jackson, Skowronek ahead of him at various times.

He did have 24 punt returns in 2022, Gervase had 1, no one else had any. Powell also had 30 of the team's 33 kickoff returns in 2022.

As a side note, with your primary punt returners being Atwell at first and then Powell you're looking at having Kupp making the fair catch/let it go decision instead of either of these guys. Now knowing the choices the Rams had I'm even more convinced that having Kupp fair catch a few punts was a good call. Otherwise you would have Atwell or Powell making that call.

Re: Fumbles cannot be blown out of proportion

Leoram — Sat, 04 Jul 2026 07:33:45 -0400

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merlin

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Leoram
This time last year the debate raged with a large contingent so sure he was beyond redemption. His fumble rate was blown out of proportion due to timing and a short sample size that did not include the rest of his career.

I am so glad that has been put largely to rest. So many refused to listen to reason. Of course, I do not expect them to admit it now. Surely there will be more chicken little narratives to come, but for now I am enjoying the calm waters.

The criticism he received was fair and deserved.

But he deserves all the credit for working hard to fix that issue. I was not certain he would be able to, given the nature of the fumbles which came while he was struggling for extra yards. And given what a big part of his game that is.

Funny how this thread has become a question of risk vs reward.

Kupp could get hurt but in hindsight, he didn't get hurt and he secured every possession.

Kyren could scale back his aggression at contact but in hindsight, sometimes a defender hits the ball just right and EVERY running back fumbles as a result.

It infuriates me when fans bemoan results when they aren't the ones taking the risks, then label someone a "fumbler" due to timing when the stats say it isn't true that they lack ball security skill or concentration. Is that really fair? Hell to the no. Criticize away. You have no responsibility on the field.

To me, it's a cultural problem. Criticizing others "is our fundamental right." Fine. There are those who believe externalizing blame and criticism is a construct that prevents the self from focusing on their own personal growth.

Judgement is the enemy of gratitude.

Fumbles cannot be blown out of proportion

merlin — Sat, 04 Jul 2026 01:44:09 -0400

Quote
Leoram
This time last year the debate raged with a large contingent so sure he was beyond redemption. His fumble rate was blown out of proportion due to timing and a short sample size that did not include the rest of his career.

I am so glad that has been put largely to rest. So many refused to listen to reason. Of course, I do not expect them to admit it now. Surely there will be more chicken little narratives to come, but for now I am enjoying the calm waters.

The criticism he received was fair and deserved.

But he deserves all the credit for working hard to fix that issue. I was not certain he would be able to, given the nature of the fumbles which came while he was struggling for extra yards. And given what a big part of his game that is.

Re: About X Smith

AlbaNY_Ram — Fri, 03 Jul 2026 18:31:14 -0400

Quote

Yes, the "downside" would've been if Kupp got hurt on a muffed punt ...

I guess there is a statistical chance that he could have muffed a punt and then could have been hurt in the ensuing scramble to recover the ball. My guess is the odds of that happening are vanishingly small ... but it isn't zero. The Rams apparently weighted that unbelievably small risk against the risk of a bad decision regarding fair catch or letting it go.

edit: In an attempt to calculate what I meant by 'vanishingly small' ...

I Googled "how often is there a muffed punt on a fair catch in the nfl" and got 1.15%. That's one muff every 87 fair catches on average in the NFL and I would wager that Kupp is better than average, perhaps a lot better than average.

Then I Googled "how often is a punt returner injured trying to recover a muffed punt" and I got "Out of thousands of punts each season, muffs only occur a couple of times per team per year, meaning an injury on this specific fraction of a fraction of plays is a statistical anomaly."

Quote

... or hurt when he actually did try and return it. He didn't return it often but I think I do remember at least a couple times but I could be wrong.

The year in question was 2021 and he only had 1 punt return for 8 yards.

On that punt the ball hit the ground a couple yards in front of him along the sidelines and it bounced right up into his arms. he took a couple steps, picked up 8 yards, and ducked out of bounds untouched.

He also had 1 solo tackle that year, my guess is on an int return. To me that seems riskier than fair catching a punt.

Personally I'd rather have him fair catch a few punts than block a DE or OLB but the Rams didn't exactly ask my opinion on that.

Quote

Having Kupp as the returner told me McVay didn't value the position enough to have a reliable returner back there. Imo, he needs to change that philosophy. There are 3 parts to a team. Not just one or two.

Having Kupp as the returner told me that McVay though he had the best combination of hands and decision making on the team.

In situations where actually returning the punt was a viable option the Rams used Atwell (10 punt returns), Powell (6), and Koski (2) at various times. The takeaway from where I sit: the three of them could catch a punt just fine but were not as good as Kupp at deciding whether they should fair catch a punt near their own goal line or let it bounce into the end zone. By relying on Kupp they avoided situations where one of those other guys might have fair caught a ball on the 2 yard line that would have otherwise bounced into the end zone and situations where one of the other guys let a punt go that was eventually downed inside the 1.

The Rams weighed the risk of Kupp muffing the ball and then getting hurt trying to recover the ball vs. the risk of starting at the 1 or 2 yards line instead of the 20. Personally I was OK with their choice, your mileage may vary.

Re: About X Smith

Ramsdude — Fri, 03 Jul 2026 14:38:40 -0400

Quote
AlbaNY_Ram

Was there a downside that I'm not seeing?

Yes, the "downside" would've been if Kupp got hurt on a muffed punt or hurt when he actually did try and return it. He didn't return it often but I think I do remember at least a couple times but I could be wrong.

Having Kupp as the returner told me McVay didn't value the position enough to have a reliable returner back there. Imo, he needs to change that philosophy. There are 3 parts to a team. Not just one or two.

Re: About X Smith

Ramsdude — Fri, 03 Jul 2026 14:34:45 -0400

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Killrazor

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Ramsdude

Quote
Killrazor

Quote
Leoram
This time last year the debate raged with a large contingent so sure he was beyond redemption. His fumble rate was blown out of proportion due to timing and a short sample size that did not include the rest of his career.

I am so glad that has been put largely to rest. So many refused to listen to reason. Of course, I do not expect them to admit it now. Surely there will be more chicken little narratives to come, but for now I am enjoying the calm waters.
))))

Like you said, it was too small a sample size to deem him a chronic fumbler.

Just like, (I know it will piss some off) I still think that Xavier Smith is still a decent punt returner and not a chronic fumbler.

Up until that last game, nobody had him pegged as a fumbler.

Very small sample size of fumbling going into this year.

Agreed he wasn't known as a fumbler prior to that disastrous fumble in the playoffs. It's a shame it happened in that game because of it's importance and visibility to everyone on the biggest stage of his career.

I like X. I think X is ok as a returner. Nothing special. We can and should try and upgrade that position. Not just because of the fumble but also because we could use a legit return threat that can break one or two every now and then. I just don't see X as that type of returner.

So, I would love to see us bring in some competition at that position. If he beats them out...great, but at least we tried to get better there.

Can you imagine having a legit returner to our ST's to compliment our already elite offense and defense??? Good golly Miss Molly!!! We would be a complete team in all 3 phases and that would make us almost unstoppable.
))))

At least they had someone other than WR1 catching punt returns for fair catches.

That was mind boggling.

Yeah, that's true. I never understood having Kupp back there for punts. Some people thought it was a good move but I thought they just over looked the position in the first place leaving no better options. lol

McVay has neglected ST's ever since Bones left and it has cost us games and maybe even a SB or two.

A good returner can be a difference maker and influence the other parts of the game. Same goes for having good blocking on ST's too and have been lacking in that dept as well. Our ST's didn't seem to look well coached and/or schemed. Maybe the new ST Coach will make a difference but I still think McVay has to prioritize them a little more than what he's done too.

Re: About X Smith

AlbaNY_Ram — Fri, 03 Jul 2026 14:09:05 -0400

If I'm not mistaken you are referring to Cooper Kupp.

Kupp was in the game as a 'punt returner' where his only options were to fair catch the ball or let the ball go into the end zone.

It doesn't surprise me in the least that of all the candidates on the roster, Kupp had the best combination of the necessary split-second decision making and the necessary ability to actually catch the ball when he called for a fair catch.

Was there a downside that I'm not seeing?

Re: About X Smith

Killrazor — Fri, 03 Jul 2026 13:22:18 -0400

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Ramsdude

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Killrazor

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Leoram
This time last year the debate raged with a large contingent so sure he was beyond redemption. His fumble rate was blown out of proportion due to timing and a short sample size that did not include the rest of his career.

I am so glad that has been put largely to rest. So many refused to listen to reason. Of course, I do not expect them to admit it now. Surely there will be more chicken little narratives to come, but for now I am enjoying the calm waters.
))))

Like you said, it was too small a sample size to deem him a chronic fumbler.

Just like, (I know it will piss some off) I still think that Xavier Smith is still a decent punt returner and not a chronic fumbler.

Up until that last game, nobody had him pegged as a fumbler.

Very small sample size of fumbling going into this year.

Agreed he wasn't known as a fumbler prior to that disastrous fumble in the playoffs. It's a shame it happened in that game because of it's importance and visibility to everyone on the biggest stage of his career.

I like X. I think X is ok as a returner. Nothing special. We can and should try and upgrade that position. Not just because of the fumble but also because we could use a legit return threat that can break one or two every now and then. I just don't see X as that type of returner.

So, I would love to see us bring in some competition at that position. If he beats them out...great, but at least we tried to get better there.

Can you imagine having a legit returner to our ST's to compliment our already elite offense and defense??? Good golly Miss Molly!!! We would be a complete team in all 3 phases and that would make us almost unstoppable.

))))

At least they had someone other than WR1 catching punt returns for fair catches.

That was mind boggling.