Re: Re:

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the QB is still the most important player

Of course, its never just the QB, but there are certainly different degrees of QB and Mahomes is at the highest degree.

Take the highest degree of QB and put him in an ideal situation and you get the Chiefs offense. The question is, is that stoppable by a great defense under the current rules?

I don't think we know yet. We haven't seen this landscape before. The closest thing to Mahomes talent in recent memory is the Rodgers of 10 years ago. I think the rules have even changed a bit since then to aid the passing game and QBs. I also believe Mahomes is more clutch than Rodgers. I haven't checked the stats. I do know that the 2010 Steelers D that Rodgers beat in the SB was the top D that year, first in pts allowed and 2nd in yards.

blue bit--And no one denied that. You're really not arguing with anyone.

red-bit--Like Archie Manning? It's never only the qb.

And the Rams beat the Chiefs so yeah it can be done.

It's like you're protective of Mahomes, so any time anyone says anything you take as slighting him in any way, you rush to his defense.

As far as great qbs go, Rodgers? In his prime he won one superbowl. Then lost in the playoffs for 6 straight years. And that's still better than Marino did, who was probably better than Rodgers. Neither had the team. Rodgers probably never had the coach.

Whenever anyone says it's never just the qb, that's so true there really is seldom any point to arguing with it.

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Who said I'm arguing? That was just a general statement that I assume everyone knows and was using as a stepping stone to the rest of my post. I strongly urge that no one takes everything I say as an argument.

Archie Manning played in ancient times. That is a poor argument, assuming you are making an argument. Let's keep it within the bounds the past 20 years, you know, post leather helmets.

No one said it cant be done. Clearly, the Niners can win the game. It's football. And the Chiefs have lost games this year, no need to go back 15 months to revel in the last explosive Goff game.

And anyone who knows anything about football understands that it's never just the QB.

The discussion here is more nuanced that that simple thought. So I ask again, is Mahomes with a strong supporting cast good enough to win the SB against a great D when his defense is average and matched up against an average QB with a strong supporting cast.

Well in response to your arguments here ( ) ... kidding, just having fun with the topic. We're just chatting. Anyway. The point of A.Manning is that he is the poster boy for the story of a top qb on a bad team. Doesn't matter what era it is...the assumption is that had AM ended up on a decent team, there would have been more wins. I think that assumption is right.

Well what's funny though is everyone says it's never just the qb, but then some people say it's never just the qb, and sometimes the response is, you're underestimating the qb, and then everyone gets back to saying it's never just the qb. Though then what gets talked about is the qb.

Mahomes would not look as good as soon without Reid, Reid's offense, that OL (which is a good one), and those weapons. Saying that is not supposed to be taken as detracting from the qb. And here's the response we DON'T need to me saying that--yeah but Mahomes is so talented. Well a lot of us (you and me included) were already saying that last year, and we can take it as a given.

But as long as we're weighing and measuring qbs, I would say that in comparison, Wilson has done a lot with less. Mahomes is in a great situation along with the given of his talent. If KC had a defense they would rule the universe.

Clutch? I dunno, I count clutch as being behind in the 4th quarter with a chance to win. Mahomes in 2 seasons has 3 wins like that. Wilson in his first 2 seasons had 8 wins like that. Though to be completely fair, that's not a real comparison because it doesn't tell you the percentage of wins in that situation, which is much more indicative. KC just plain had the lead more in most games compared to Seattle 2012-2013.