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Speed_Kills
Although it is true that Wade has traditionally valued edge rushers
I don’t like that AD is allowing himself to be used to reset the market
Is it "re-setting"?
In 2015 Suh's contract was 86% of the top qb's contract.
In 2016 it was similar with Von Miller.
In 2018, Von Miller's older deal, the highest for a defender, comes in at 63% of the top qb contract.
The market was already set for top defenders, it just regressed.
Give AD just 80% of the top qb's contract and it's 24 M. Which is not only NOT unreasonable, it doesn't even fully restore the market to what it already was for top defenders with Suh and Von Miller.
....
You keep ignoring the other factors behind Suh and Miller's contracts...
Suh was an actual free agent, who could go to the highest bidder....nuff said.
Miller was coming off a Super Bowl MVP and had already played his 5th year and was heading towards the franchise tag.
Donald is neither of those.
These are factors that need to be addressed when comparing the contracts.
No, those particular points have come up before, and I've answered them several times, and not even just on this board. Here goes again.
Of all the contracts signed this year, what difference did being "an actual free agent" make? Pick someone and explain. For example, Cooks was not a FA this year, Watkins was. They both got around 16 M. Strangely so did every WR who came up this year whether they were free agents or not.
Meanwhile, some more relevant facts.
Carr got 25 M. Wilson got 22 M (about). Yet Wilson had won a superbowl at that point and Carr has has had only 1 winning season, and has been in only one playoff game (which they lost). What explains the difference? Simple. Wilson came up in 2015 and Carr came up in 2017. That's it. That's the difference. Contracts go up and the year matters.
Plus of course of the existing "best defender" contracts, the 1st under the new CBA was Watt in 2014. He got 16.6 M. With that contract, he was the highest paid at his position at that point, for a few years anyway, and it was high in comparison to some top qbs too. He was not a free agent and he had never been to a superbowl.
If you dont; factor things like ALL that in, you're not talking about how 2nd contracts really work.
The year counts. Previous contracts count. Contracts increase. They increase by a fair percentage. If you are a team and you ignore all that you just cause yourself problems.
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So let Donald hit free agency like Suh or even just finish his 5th year like Miller did if you want to reset or blow up the market....?
I wish you had read my post. I was pointing out he's not re-setting or blowing up the market. The market was already established. Not sure why that' s not clear yet. I also asked you to name any player who got more at a position simply because they were a free agent. (See that's a myth.) I pointed out that Cooks wasn't a free agent but he got basically the same as Watkins, who was. (And Gurley wasn't a free agent either and he now has the highest contract of any RB.) And they don't just pay superbowl winners. Ryan lost a superbowl and he's now the highest paid player in the league.
So as for your ideas of who gets paid, no one else who came up in his third year the way Donald did had to be a free agent superbowl winner either. Several players did what Donald did--1st rounders under the new CBA are allowed to re-negotiate after their 3rd year. That's what Watt did and Frederick too. Kuechly's another...there's more. In each case they came out of it as the highest paid player at their position when they did that. So there's nothing new or different about what AD is doing. There actually really is nothing in the league that corresponds with your view of how this works.
Just a reminder of that...no superbowls, no free agency, but they all got big contracts at the top of each position in question:
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, [
www.cbssports.com]
Teams giving highly-accomplished first-round picks extremely early extensions haven't exploited their leverage. Cowboys center Travis Frederick, Panthers inside linebacker Luke Kuechly, Cardinals cornerback Patrick Peterson and Texans defensive end J.J. Watt
became the highest-paid player (by average year salary) at their respective positions. Each player received All-Pro honors in two of their first three year.
As for your list of Rams players to choose, I wondered why you did that. I mean a good team keeps all of its best talent. They do that, even if the fact that Cooks gets more than Gurley irrationally bugs some fan somewhere.
[
ramsrule.com]
Read this yet?
Thanks for post that link. I don't know about zn but I hadn't read that yet and it is exactly what I was asking/talking about up above. Have you ever seen the NFL Positional Value Pyramid? Found here:
[
www.arrowheadpride.com]
So that's what I'm asking/wondering about...impact per dollar, where do you put it? And how much is the position Donald plays worth, not how much is Donald worth. At any rate, the article you linked to was addressing this so now I will go back and read through that thread. Thanks again R2K
I'm not sure about the legitimacy of this particular pyramid but I'm fairly certain that teams do have a hierarchy of positional value.
I've always thought that you could pretty much follow the money to figure out in general what that hierarchy is.
For example, we all know that QBs are at the top of the list in value. Sure enough, they are also paid the most. Since we don't usually have access to a positional value chart, I figured that we could reverse engineer it by looking at which positions are the highest paid to see which positions NFL powers that be value the most.
If we follow the money, we'll see that pass rushing is the 2nd highest paid skill set after QB. In that pyramid, it's rightfully on the 2nd rung but in real life it's being compensated at a much higher level than the other 2nd rung positions of LT and CB. FWIW, WRs are paid more than LTs too and about equal to a #1 CB.
I suspect Donald's "position" is the where the dispute in his value is with the Rams.
The Rams likely are categorizing him as a DT since technically that's where he lines up.
Donald is probably categorizing himself as a pass rusher, not a DT. There is merit to his position too since according to many metrics including PFF, he led the league in QB pressures and QB hits - stats which are traditionally dominated by 4-3 DE's and 3-4 OLBs. The fact is, a DT being the best pass rusher in the league is an unprecedented feat.
Personally, I think it's an error to look at technical position rather than what the player provides. But that's just me. I hope the Rams aren't making a mistake in this regard.
I think you're asking good questions but I think the controversy isn't so much, "What is the position Donald plays worth?" but rather, "What position does Donald play?"
As this thing drags on more, I predict we'll hear more about this as the central issue. We've already gotten the first whisper of this issue in the report of this thread stating that Wade may value Mack more because he's an edge rusher.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2018 01:40PM by dzrams.
